Haven't shot a front loader in over 30 years and didn't expect things to be much different 'til I remembered the no lead for waterfowl regs. I 've got a Pedersoli 10ga SxS with *****-in chokes: I'm assuming it can handle steel (just because the ***** in chokes date it as a fairly recently built gun, but I'm not sure, since I bought it used from a buddy who never used it
 So what I'm wondering is what sort of loads to work up. I've got a bunch of old Rem. SP10 wads, and some BP multi-metal cups, 7 lbs. of Bismuth #4s, 4 or 5 ounces of hevi-shot #4s a friend gave me, and about the same amount of Bismuth BBs (salved from some dunked and soaked 10ga shells)

 I'm hoping to work up lead loads in #4 at the patterning board that will be a good shooting facsimile for the pricey bismuth. Don't guess I can do that for the Hevi-Shot.........any input anybody can give me to short-cut the process and get me started would be great.........Thanks

                BlackDuckDog

For starters KISS is the best practice. KEEP IT SIMPLE SIMON
 
My Pedersoli 10 likes a load of 90 grains by volume of 2F, 3 thin over shot cards, equal volume of shot and one over shot card.
 
Work up your loads with lead shot and proof them with bismuth. I do not notice any pattern density drop with that metod and it saves a lot of bismuth.
 
I recommend staying away from the newer plastic cups if at all possible. They will not let air escape as they are being seated and really make it slow to reload. One shooter I know has to use them to make his 12 gauge pattern well but he also carries a small mallet for seating the cup because his palm just wears out to fast. He also shoots steel. I worked up loads with steel and it is a long explanation of how to get there. We can do it if you need to.
 
If you live within 3 hours of me I will meet up with you and we can do some one on one. I am in Katy Texas (near Houston)

I bought a 10 gauge Pedersoli SxS for shooting steel shot. I don't feel I can get enough velocity out of my 12 gauge guns (and smaller) using steel shot. Besides my other firearms are older and not steel rated. For them I use bismuth, over-shot cards on the powder and on top of the shot.
 
The loads I patterned were with *****-in chokes using a modified choke (left barrel) and improved cylinder (right barrel) are as follows: 4 drams Goex 2F, ½ over-powder card, ½ cushion wad (lubed with bore butter, it helps the shot cup when loading), Federal steel shot cup, 1 5/8 ozs. steel BBB’s (approximately 90 pellets), and an over-shot card. With a modified choke, I get 70 pellets in a 30-inch circle at 30 yards; this is 77% or full choke patterns. This combination has harvested the larger waterfowl (Canada geese and sandhill cranes).
 
To get the components for this load I bought a box of Federal 10 gauge BBBs steel shot and disassembled the shells. Now I have both BBBs and the shot cup. The shot cup does not have a compression section, or I would have removed it before loading. To do an equal volume shot to powder did not seem practical due to the size and weight of the shot so I decided to use the same amount of shot that was in the factory load. It measured almost 2 ounces, by volume according to my powder measure.
 
The initial loading was performed using cylinder chokes. In the field I used a small hammer and a dowel rod to get the shot cup through the choke tubes.

As for the bismuth loads I use 1 size larger shot than I would if it were a modern firearm.  A little extra mass at the slower velocities still provides the necessary energy to properly dispatch waterfowl (4's on decoying ducks, 2's on pass shooting ducks, and BB's for geese).

Blackduckdog
 
I will vouch that Smokepole definately knows what he is talking about. I personally watched him shoot a double on Sandhill cranes with a muzzie and both birds were dead on impact with the ground. Something I have never seen a modern shooter be able to do.

Thanks Alboy,
Just in case you hadn't heard. Bismuth No-Tox owner died this spring, and the company is up for sale. Not sure if they will offer pellets to reloaders in the future (but I have no info saying they won't either.) Two places on-line that have 'em are Precision Reloading (only #4 and #2) @ $119 for 7lbs and Ballistic Products has almost all sizes available for $142 a 7lb jug. If you use it, grab it now before another price increase.
 
This will definitly hurt shooting my older flinters.

Thanks for the info had not heard that. I do need some #2.
 
After that I guess it will be buying modern loads and cutting them for supplies or back to working out all the kinks of getting steel loaded so it will not hurt the older barrels. Lot of pain and worry there.
 
Or just give up waterfowling with the old sooters like Jay has done with his old moderns. That would be a real bummer. Well I still have the SxS 10 with chrome barrels and I do not have to look at the chrome just know it is there.

Great info guys, thanks. I'm still curious about loading in the rain (I'm hunting on Puget Sound), and is the site filter really bleeping out the word s*rew, as in removable chokes? Needs to be tweaked, I'd say, especially on a site that deals so much with firearms.
   Too bad about the Bismuth NoTox owner; hope they carry on somehow.......
Hey Smokepole, how come you  like  shotcups, but not the the collapsible ones?

       BlackDuckDog

Actually I don't like the shot-cups. The problem with the steel is that the shot column does not compress, so at the initial firing there is the possibility of causing a barrel "bulge". The shot cups for steel are much firmer than the standard hunting or target shot cup. They will protect the barrel from scrubbing and relieve the column size change.
 
A shot cup makes it more difficult to adjust pattern parameters when trying for the optimum load since these are fixed volume devices. The other issue with the shot cups is they do not compress the powder charge the same way each time if the compression core is still attached. Remember, black powder needs some form of compression (no air gap or space) to be safe and perform the same time after time. Besides, this would just be one more thing to fumble with when trying to load in the field.  Using blackpowder requires consistent performance and technique on your part in order to repeat performance.
 
As for "wet weather" shooting, make yourself a lock cover (cow's knee). I took some heavy duck material, laid my firearm on its side and traced its pattern. This will be one side, made the other side similar but large to allow going over the top and under the bottom. Then sewed the pieces togeather, water-proofed it, tossed it in my haversack and it is ready when needed.
 
Here is an example of a cow's knee (not mine).

 

 
Wet weather has been a problem for flintlock shooters since the lock was invented in about 1610. Those of us who favor that ignition system in today's world are faced with the same difficulties and it seems that many of us never overcome them. That's too bad. It is a real disappointment to have gotten in position to take a nice deer or waterfowl and fail to do so because the pan is full of slush, instead of the good dry prime we need. It is disappointing, but almost totally avoidable. Wet weather flintlock shooting is a learned skill, and we can overcome the problem with the application of a little thought and effort.

The design of the lock is one important consideration. There is a type of lock known as "waterproof", which, of course, isn't. No lock is totally waterproof, but this type is engineered so that there is no excess pan exposed below the frizzen, and this helps prevent channeling of water into the pan. I would select this type for a gun I knew was going to be subjected to foul weather regularly, if it were possible. It usually isn't.

The ordinary lock most of us use has a wide flange around the pan, and this mates with the bottom, or foot, of the frizzen when the frizzen is closed. This joint is a frequent source of trouble. Take your lock off and hold it up to the light so you are looking at that joint. If you can see light between the flange of the pan and the foot of the frizzen, you need to do some work. This joint needs to mate exactly, so that no light will be visible. Some careful filing and stoning will usually make that happen. Remove the frizzen from the lock and work at it slowly, and it's not a difficult job to make both sides perfectly flat, as they need to be.
 
With my flintlock I also use soft bee's wax around the edge of the pan and frizzen and make a small run-off near the barrel. I add the cow's knee and tuck the whole thing under my hunting pouch. It also helps to change out the powder regular basis or if time would permit prime when need.
 
With a caplock, I have laid in wet fields during a drizzle for hours, with the barrel pointed down and the lock area under cover and it would discharge on the first try. But then again I have gone out of blue-bird days and have had numerous mis-fires. It's all part of the game.
 
Hope I didn't preach too much.

Preachin's what I'm here for, Smokepole, gimme that ol' time religion ..........My Pedersoli 10's a caplock, so I'm not too worried about ignition per se (at least not at the lock end of things) I'm wondering about actual reloading in the rain. Are some powders more or less hygroscopic (I figure they're all on the "more" side, with some a little less more than others) and can you keep your powder driest in individual speed loads, or in the flask? Balloon over the barrels maybe (but how would that work with a SxS?)
   I guess I oughta get out to the range next rainy spell (never have to wait too long around here) and just plain see what bangs and what doesn't...........I have been thinking about a turkey blind umbrella that I could reload under and it 'd double as a hide for me when I don't feel like closing myself up in the layout blind (I actually can't stand shooting from a half sit-up position, but they're handy) The Labs get their own MuttHuts and they always look a lot more comfortable than I feel. Seems like my biggest need is enough covered headroom; maybe a camo tarp pitched in the tulles...........

            BlackDuckDog....... (BTW the dog is black, not the ducks)

Actually there should be some concern over the cap end. I have seen were moisture got under the cap and it turned to mush. So just take some sort of precaution. As for barrel covers, it is ture that some people use "finger cots" over the ends and some even use a piece of electrical tape. The latter would be easier with a SxS, I just keep the barrel pointed down. If you have tight seated over-powder wadding and lubed cushion and shot-cup and shot and over-shot wadding, how much water would you expect to get down past all these components and contaminate the powder? Hmmmm..... seems like a little test is required to satisfy curious minds.
 
With the 10 gauge SxS, I use 2FFg powder. Larger granulations "less" susceptable to moisture (how much?). I have a friend who uses 1Fg but I haven't tried that as of yet.
 
When I hunt with friends we use a "hay bale blind". This allows me to use pre-measured powder and shot. The powder is in small containers I get from work and the shot is stored inside a 16 gauge hull pushed into a 12 gauge hull. Using different colored 12 gauge hulls allows me to identify the shot charge.
 
When hunting alone, I perfer to hunt in 1781 Ohio Valley period clothing, loading from the pouch and horn, using natural camoflague.

Took me awhile to work up a solution incorporating all this great advice  (cow's knee especially good.........my wife sewed one up from cordura so it may not be traditional but its light and handy) But now I've got a whole new issue. I just got given TWO, count 'em, TWO, jars of Hevi-Shot (2's and 4's) and I just gotta find a way to use it in the muzzleloader. So I'm back to the pain in the butt shotcups through the chokes thing.........Except.........A buddy shoots a Mossberg 835 (12 gauge w/barrels bored out to 10ga) Seems like if a 12 gauge shotcup full of tungsten type shot does fine in that 10ga bore, it oughta do the same in mine, huh? I mean, I know there are differences like I don't have the 12ga chamber or forcing cone, but still.........Sure would be easy to drop that little ol' cup through the tightest choke and then settle it all in there with an overshot wad............Waddya think?

BlackDuckDog

BlackDuckDog,
I would still use the 10 gauge wads for non-toxic shot (Ballistics Products sells a multi-metal wad, http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/products.asp?dept=84
 
I would do pre-measurements of the shot to make sure it stays in the cup.  Next when loading the the barrel be sure to use some sort of over powder wadding.  Do not rely on the shot cup to seal the charge.  Next step using and overshot card just down the barrel far enough to allow the shot cup to be inserted where you can veryify that all the shot is contained with in the cup.
 
I would punch a small hole in the bottom of the shotcup to allow the air to escape and make easier loading.  Fill the shotcup to the desired amount, use and over shotcard on your first "to-fire-barrel" and consider using 2 overshot cards on the other to help prevent the load from shifting due to the first shot.  While at the range you could just check the other barrel to see if it would require the second overshot card.  Try to find the wad to see if you are getting any "blow-by" past the sides of your overpowder wadding.
 
I tried hevi-shot once and found that it patterned tight, therefore requiring a little extra range to my target or use a more open choke.