I've got this new Husqvarna 16ga SxS that was built sometime between 1865 and 1879. It's got gorgeous damascus bbls. Clearly, I'm gonna shoot BP loads from it. But I got to thinkin' :D:D:D, what if I tried to shoot it as a muzzle loader? "Ignition" is an obvious and immediate 'challenge'. But almost as soon as I recognized that 'challenge', I thought I could make an ignition system by cutting the base from a 'modern' shotgun hull, and slipping it into the breech. THEN I could charge the thing from the muzzle. When the hammers dropped, they would set off the 'modern' primers, which would of course fire.
 
The practical problem as I see it at the moment is the forend of the chamber. The overpowder and cushion wads would have to get by the constriction at the muzzle end of the chamber. If the chamber-bore interface was a sharp edge, this could be a deal stopper I suppose, but if it was a gradual/angled transition, seems it oughtta work.
 
I'd appreciate the thoughts of some of yous guys more experienced at this than me.
 
Paul

Well you asked for opinions, mine aught to smell about as good as the next guys.
 
Unless you are just set on packing from the muzzle on this shotgun I would suggest that you load some BP shells and just shoot them that way.
 
Dram charts I know you already have. I would start there and make up the load at the powder charge you feel most comfortable with.
 
Use a modern shell/primer.
 
Your shot (size doe not matter) load needs to be the same volume as your powder.
 
The tough part will be finding the cushin stack between the over powder card (I would use very thin cards here) and the shot load so that the shell crimps back closed like a factory round.
 
Then load them and shoot them.
 
Before investing in a press I would look at Lee Loaders for specific shell size.

Reading this I confuse myself.
 
On the recommended thin cards that is 1-3 over the powder. Then use fiber, plastic or some other cushin filler to take up space. A thin card then shot covered by another thin card. Crimp the thing closed.

Maybe this'll make it clearer...
 
I wuz thinkin' that, God willin' and the creek don't rise, I might get down Katy Texas way with my new old Husqvarna BP 16, and do a little bird huntin' with some front-stuffer boys. Even though I'd be smokin' up the place, I was figuring I'd be in for a little ribbin' from the muzzle loading bunch. I was thinking that I might defray a little of that friendly heehawin' by employing my breechloader as a front-stuffer. However, a not-so-little "birdy" pointed out that it wasn't likely that the brass head from a plastic shotgun shell would provide the necessary gas seal. A point I had failed to consider.
 
So... I wasn't askin' what the proper BP loads were - (I've go that figured out for my Collath drilling), - I was trying to figure out how to avoid bein' the focus of a certain amount of friendly harrassment. :) looks like I'm just going to hafta 'bite the bullet'. :)
 
You just never can tell which way my mind might be workin'. :D
 
Paul

Well sir I will address the HARRASSMENT first.
 
You are an Alaskan you will be harrassed.
 
The true muzzle loading bunch consists of one most days, unless Smokepole is in town. :)
 
Can not get Jimbo down out of the Hill Country.  Except for the Kansas trip last year and the soon not to be trip to Washington this year. Gotta quit whining about that and just start planning on 2007 trip.
 
Having a double like that pretty little damacus job of yours and hand loaded BP shells will make you one of a kind in the field. Even the Berretta haulers will be walking over to take a peak.:D  While you are planning a maybe trip lets get Llano John snared in as well.  Some of those old shotguns of his should digest some bizmuth moderns alright. I would suggest bizmuth in your hand rolls too, then you are good to go no matter what flutters by.
 
Now that I think about it I need to send you and Jay a sample of bizmuth shot for what ever experiments you boys can dream up. Then maybe Jay could get some waterfowl work out of some of his antigues, which in no way should ever be submitted to the embarrassment of steel shot. And you could just enlighten me as too properties I have not even as yet considered in the stuff.

Y'know, I hadn't thought about the non-lead issue in the Husqvarna. Bismuth runs about $1/oz vs. $.08/oz for lead - about 12 times as much, while Hevishot is about $1.50/oz. Nice way to make waterfowling an undertaking solely for the well-heeled. If I come to hunt waterfowl in Texas, I'll figure something out though.
 
Paul

Have not actually handled some of the heavy shot but get the impression it is hard like the tungsten-iron matrix or steel stuff. I have talked to folks that swore by it for knock down power. I would not put it through a barrel that was irreplaceable.

I  cannot find any shot for non-steel rated barrels except Bismuth, all the others are as hard or harder than steel.
The reason I did not try to hunt with Al this winter, $25 for 10 shells just hits me wrong.
Don

I hear you Don, There were a lot of years before I went back into the waterfowl shooting buisness after they forced us to steel.
 
The price is part of what makes me pick better shots.

Hard steel or tungsten in a ML is one thing, but what is it about the shotcup of a modern shotgun shell that doesn't protect the bbl from the hardness of steel or tungsten?
 
Paul

If I might interject?...I'm no brain surgeon of blackpowder by no means but I do
coincidentally have similar interests in this area, presently...Going all the way
back to your initial posting, gitano, you mentioned the problems facing the
concept of cutting the brass off'n a modern shot shell & using a std 204 primer.
I thought this a great idea but then you say a "birdie" come along and blew that
out of the water with this gas seal problem, Ok, but what if you trim the modern
shot shell off at the crimp? might resolve the possible restriction issue and the
gas/seal problem?...And why wouldn't a modern shotcup protect a bbl from steel
hardness?.............I don't understand that?.........You should still be able to use
lead, right?..I mean, how much steel ya gonna shoot through this thing?..BH51:confused:

I am far from a barrel steel and ballistics expert but these are my musings.
 
Some of the shot will escape the cup and scratch or mar the softer steel of the old barrels. Worry percntage low.
 
The steel or similar hard shot can BRIDGE trying to go throught the choke. Thus "RINGING", SWELLING or DESTROYING A BARREL. Worry percentage OFF MY CHART. Really nothing to do with the cup per se.

I considered the shot cup idea, but , shotgun gurus say that steel shot does not behave at all like lead in the barrel, the lead exerts a sideways load on the barrel, the steel does not, But the steel will not yield any at the choke and, if there is any choke, will do bad things to the end of the barrel, even with modern steel barrels that are not designed for shooting steel shot.
I did get a Handi rifle barrel in 12ga, for steel shot, but it is a straight barrel with a specially hardened and plated screw in choke tube.
Don

Hmmnn.......Well........I do recall an incident with a light weight Franchi shotgun
that was ringed and we had to bore the barrel to imp.cylinder to salvage, which
would support that claim.......Hmn.. .. It sometime amazes me that we should
sit before modern technologies and still have simple problems with throwing stuff
down a gun barrel..Just ta keep ducks from eat'n lead:( .....Thanks quys..BH51

A sort version of how I handled this was with my old Beulah SxS cylinder 12 bore. I got a nice 12 gauge cup with no fingers cut in it that was designed for steel. Shot that till I could afford a Pedersoli 10 made to handle steel.
 
The 12 gauge would throw a decent pattern out to 50 yards with steel/CUP. Power wise I was comfortable to 35.
 
About the same time I got the 10 I also found a reliable source for Bizmuth. For me it works just like lead, others have to make up their own mind. Yes it is way more expensive. So IS my shotgun.
 
Now I shoot and retrieve birds at a ratio of 3 birds to four shots pretty consistently. Despite what Smoke pole witnessed when I went four for four on misses with him last year. GO FIGURE? I think I was in awe of his Looong single then follow up double inside of 15 minutes the first morning.