For those interested in 8x56R Steyrs

Started by gitano, December 12, 2005, 08:56:39 AM

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gitano

Of late, HB and I have been trying to get our hands on 8x56R brass, and getting pretty frustrated in the process. For a while we have been getting what appeared to be strange denials about who the manufacturer is, and who's doing what.
 
Graf and Sons http://www.grafs.com/metallic/798 has been the "supplier", but their catalog said they were getting the brass from Hornady. Calls and emails to Hornady had them denying any brass manufacturing for Graf. Buffalo Arms, http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3861.htm that also sells the brass, lists it as Item #Horn856R. Sounds like Hornady to me. Graf's catalog says their brass for obsolete cartridges is made by Hornady. Turns out what they MEANT to say was that their 8x56R AMMO is made by Hornady. In a phoncon, Graf wouldn't say who the manufacturer was "Because we're under contract not to identfy them." But they were willing to say that the manufacturer is "European". That of course means Prvi Partizan. So... finally we know who the manufacturer is. The bad news is of course that being European, there's no way to "pressure" them into making more brass faster. In addition, according to Graf, the importation issues are bolluxed up every time the goods physically change hands.
 
So... I intend to order at least 250 cases that are scheduled to be into Graf "the end of January". Based on previous posts, there were a few other fellas here at THL that were interested in a bulk purchase. If you're interested, let me know. No obligations necessary at this time, I'm just interested in what size order we might be able/willing to make. If the order exceeds 1000 pieces, the savings per case is $0.03. ($28.99/100 vs $260.91/1000 - 137.70/500) Grafs will pay freight for those of you not in Alaska. (Buffalo Arms sells them for $29/100 with no quantity discounts and you pay freight. Since they get theirs from Graf, that's no surprise.) This might be a good time to order brass for some of the other hard-to-find stuff like 7.5x55 Schmidt Rubin and 7.62x54R Russian as well as Hornady's .329" 205 grain bullets. On that note, Buffalo Arms has 150, 175, 200, 205, and 220s in .329". Go here http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=49&catid=92&step=2 to look at prices.
 
Lemme know, and we'll get something going. Also, for those interested in reloading the Berdan-primed milsurp brass, send me a private message, and I'll relate what I've been doing lately in that endeavor.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Hi Paul,
 
     Hmmm may be just may be it might be FNM (INDEP) of Portugal who is making the brass as they are involved with some obsolete calibres. Just an idea.
Go Get them Floyd!

Hunterbug

As you know I'm interested. We can have it shipped to me for free and I'll be happy to repackage and ship smaller lots where they need to go.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

sakorick

Hello Bug....I'll take 250. Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

Well there's 500, plus whatever HB plans on getting. Wasn't Fortunate Son talking about having an M95?
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Hunterbug

I'll take 250 as well. All we need is someone else to take another 250 and we'll have an even 1K.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

Well, we've got 'til late January at least. If at that time no one else has expressed an interest, I'll make up the balance to get to 1k.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

sakorick

Hey Paul. I'll go havesies with you to make the 1K. Let's not let a nickle hold up a quarter here. I also need the best bullet for this contraption.....where is the best place to order these.....Hornady??? What about a powder recommendation.....I know you covered this before. but I promise to print it this time! Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

#8
I've been corresponding with NuJudge about reloading for the M-95, and he pointed me to some threads on resizing .338 bullets with a Lee resizer. I've seen that before, and had my doubts, but I"m going to try some tonight. I'll post the results later. As I told him, I'm VERY pleased with the Hornady 205s (see attached 100 yd targets). Given that, and the fact that I have no interest in anything heavier than 205, the only bullets I can think of below 200 are Barnes "X"s which are solid. (Although I think somebody does have a jacketed at 185.) I'll let you know what happens with the Barnes 160 "X".
 
You can get the 205s from Graf @ www.grafandsons.com. BUffalo Arms has 150s and 175s as well as 200s and 220s. http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=49&catid=92&step=2 I don't know who makes theirs. Buffalo gives no break for quantity or shipping.
 
I have also used some 100 grainers (made for the Lebel). MVs with low pressures were about 2625 f/s. I'll likely get that up to 3000 at least while keeping pressure below 50 kPSI. The nazi milsurp 205s yield an average of 2385 f/s at 40 kPSI.
 
I've used 3031, 4064, VV N-150 and I&H4350 powders, with the above bullets as well as my cast bullets. The powder that shot the below groups was H4350. I'm elevating those loads just a bit and using I4350. When we get enough light to use a chronograph effectively, I'll give a range report. I dont' know what I'll end up using powder-wise for the 175s, 150s and the 100s.
 
If you have some Boxer-primed 7.62x54R brass, you can simply resize their necks in your 8x56R die and load as you would 8x56R brass. The necks will be short after fire-forming, but that's not a problem with the Hornady 205s, and it will get you 'burning powder'. Graf has Boxer-primed 7.62x54R brass on hand now as far as I know as does Buffalo Arms. You can buy them one-at-a-time from Buffalo Arms.
 
More later.
 
Paul
 
OOPS - forgot the pictures :o
Be nicer than necessary.

Hunterbug

Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

#10
Forgot about that thread HB.
 
I'm just back from attempting to swage a Barnes "X" 160 in .338. Suffice it to say, it doesn't work. Not even close. Just so I could day I did, I swaged a 200 grain .338 Nolser Ballistic Tip. It did work just fine. Result was 0.331" in diameter. The polycarbonate tip was pushed forward about a 32nd. Again, unless I can find a jacketed bullet below 200, I won't be resizing any .338 bullets for use in the M-95.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Hunterbug

Nosler makes a 180gr Ballistic Tip in 338. But looking at the cost unless you really wanted a ballistic tip type bullet the 150s and 175s from Buffalo Arms are a better choice.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

#12
I knew you'd know about it HB. You're using that bullet in your .338 WM aren't you? The 180 weight in .338 is close to the sweetspot (about 190 if I recall correctly), for the .338 MAI, so I assume it would be for the 8x56R too. For ease of acquisition, the 175 from Buffalo Arms is close enough to 180/185 to be a suitable substitute. Also, I assume the Buffalo Arms bullet is a flat-base, which I prefer. On the other hand, the boat-tail of the Nosler 180 Ballistic Tip would help out a bit with longer-range (150-300) ballistics. Finally, Hawk told me they'd "Make any diameter bullet of any weight" I asked for. Further in the conversation, that comment was qualified with "within reason". I believe that they would make pretty much what ever I/we asked for in .329" or .330".
 
I like the Hawk bullets for one reason: They have pure copper jackets, and pure lead cores - ala the original Barnes. Too bad Barnes phased most of those out. I'm sure they had to aquiesce to the fickle nature of the "gunwriter" to stay in business. What I don't like about the Hawk bullets, is that they make no 'bow' to ballistic efficiency. In other words, all their bullets are round nosed (at least as far as I can tell). The Hornady 205 is a very sharp-pointed bullet... The nose is more triangular than ogived. But it clearly shoots very well. According to Hornady, while they have not measured it, they estimate the BC of their 205 to be .376. Assuming that's close, and I do, the Hawk round-nosed ones are going to be considerably smaller. I'd guess somewhere around .300 or less - maybe as low as .250. For a bullet starting at 2600 (what I'd hope to get a 180-ish to), the difference in trajectory between a BC of .376 and .250 is significant.
 
Paul
 
PS
 
I forgot to mention that I think one might be able to swage the .338 Barnes 185 grain Triple Shock to .330"-ish. Because of the "ringed shank" design, there would be "room" for the displaced metal to move. I'm not sure of this, but it's a thought. Of course the Triple Shocks are about $32/50, so you'd really have to want to shoot them after they've been swaged. As far a I can tell, no solid experiemental work has been performed to determine if the .338 jacketed bullets swaged to .330"-ish still shoot consistently. Add to that, that we don't know what swaging will do to Triple Shocks (assuming it does work), and once again I am returned to the Hornady 205 as an excellent choice. Just thought I'd mention the possibilty that a "solid", if in Triple Shock configuration, might be swagable to .330"ish.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Hunterbug

Looking at the pics from Buffalo Arms site both the 150 and 175 look like and are listed as spitzers with flat bases. Looking at the BCs of the 170gr .323" RN and the 250gr .338 RN I would guesstimate the BC of the Hawk bullets to be .260ish. I'm really liking the prospect of the 175s.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

I called Graf yesterday just to check on the status of the 8x56R brass shipment. It's been pushed back from "the end of January" to "the end of February". Typical of Graf. I'll keep checking.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

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