New Arrows and their weights

Started by Brithunter, September 16, 2009, 03:07:10 AM

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Brithunter

Hi All,

Thinking on what Gitano has imparted about limb draw weights and arrow weights I decided to weigh the arrows I have including the new ones which arrived in the post this morning. So I now have three different arrow types these being:-

1) 8x Eastern Platinum 2016 Lite XX75 in 32" length (tip to centre of Nock) weight 466 grains. The alloy shaft is 5/16" (0.311")

2) 10x Armex alloy (8mm Dia) shaft 30" long with screwed in point =31" OAL weight 502 grains. The screw in point is alloy weighs 158 Grains.

3) Armex fibreglass 0.268" dia ( 6.83mm) 30 1/2" long including the this metal field point weighing 508 grains in total.


Ahhh well you guessed it :Banghead: well I couldn't wait until this evening to see how it goes so I am now down to 9 Fibreglass arrows :( it's buried in the grass of the field and I cannot find it. Dumb me just tried shooting it and watching where it went. No sight fitted to bow and the second time I shot it well it's lost in the thinck grass thatch on the field. I know where abouts it went but cannot find it. Naturally I WILL find it with the mower when cutting the field :( .

So I thought Ah-Ha I'll use a bag of bark chippings and shoot at that this time with the sight. Are you ready for a laugh?

I fetched a bag of bark chippings but it wouldn't stand up on it's own being only a 20 litre bag so I grabbed Dad's ..................... notice Dad's garden fork jammed stuck in the ground and lent the bag against it. the bark chippings are toughter than i though and the fibreglass arrow with it's blunted point bounced back out :eek: so I tried the alloy shafted/pointed arrows and missed to the left. Had a devil of a job finding the arrow even though I saw it went right at the base of the bag just to the left. Finally recovered it and tried again. The arrow struck dead centre :eek: and I mean dead centre and came flying back out and some white bit flew and landed just in front of me. Strange I thought. Went and retrieved the arrow to find the nock was missing. Yep the white bit :confused: and when I looked the point it's was very blunted. Yeah you guessed it straight through the bag and hit the NEW wooden fork handle dead centre :Banghead: I'll now have to rub the handle down to remove any splinters and possibly get a new handle and fit it. Will see how it goes.

Oh of course the new alloy shaft was bent too but I think with some care I have managed to straighten it. I will go and see a local farmer and see if we can get 6 nice big square bails to act as a backstop and I will buy the straw target roundal from the club TONIGHT! meanwhile I have numbered all the arrows, #10 in the alloys is the one I straightened.

Oh I managed to draw the Bow OK and will see how we do this evening with it :) before making the decision about lighter limbs.
Go Get them Floyd!

Alboy

This is proving to be highly entertaining. Are you sure we are not related as this sounds a lot like the way I usually proceed with new toys.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

Daryl (deceased)

Sounds like you should invest in a few "judo" tips for your arrows.
 
They have little spring steel "fingers" that grab grass and such, causing the arrow to tumble rather than bury itself under grass.  They're also deadly on small game.
 
;)
 
Daryl
A government that abrogates any of the Bill of Rights, with or without majoritarian approval, forever acts illegitimately, becomes tyrannical, and loses the moral right to govern-Jeffrey Snyder
 

RIP Linden33

gitano

:MOGRIN:
 
 
Here in the States, fiberglass arrows are relegated mostly to fishing due to their very heavy weight. They are also included in most "beginners" kits.
 
The target shooters here in Alaska, and I assume elsewhere in the US, all use aluminum arrows as big around as they can get. Scoring in archery is such that if the arrow or the arrow's marke simply touches a ring, the higher value is scored. The thinking is that an arrow that is bigger around will score higher even though the center of its point hit the exact same spot as a smaller diameter arrow. Silliness to me, but most target shooting minutia are silliness to me.
 
Let me urge you to get arrows properly spined for your draw weight. Small matters in spine don't matter much, but large differences in spine matter a lot. You will be a much happier archer if your arrows are properly spined to your bow. "Spine" is the flexibility of the arrow. The higher the draw weight, the stiffer the spine. My personal opinion is that large diameter lightly-spined aluminum arrrows are the "best" choice for target shooting until one reaches the level of competition where money is involved. You can find spine charts in any reputable "store" ("brick and mortar" or internet) that sells arrows.
 
Keep the updates coming. They're a riot. We are kindred spirits.:biggthumpup:
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Well I think we can call that one lost :( as I even got the ride on mower out and cut the grass where it went and did so several times until it's short. The grass was about 5" long to start with and it's now about 1". Yet I cannot find the arrow and the mower didn't either. Of course shooting at short range about 25 paces the angle of entry was low.

Glad I gave you a laugh :biggthumpup: .

I am now off down to the archery club to make sure this is all set up correctly and have some shooting practice under the watchful eye of a coach. I should return with a 4ft straw target roundal this evening :biggthumpup: .
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

If you take a rake to the area you think the arrow went, you might recover it.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

#6
I have just entered the Robin Hood, group.
No longer have to have a Dr.'s certificate to use a crossbow for deer and there is a 1 month long early deer season here.
Both shoulders are bad, so I could get the certificate if I wished.
I had a shop test my draw weight, 26lb.
I found a 20lb. compound, then ordered a 150lb. recurve crossbow, I can't **** it!
Found how to make a pulley cocking rig so the crossbow is now useable.
Tried the compound and the crossbow over the chronograph.
!5' separation, compound 108fps, placed an arrow with a practice point 17" into damp sand.
Recurve crossbow, 217fps, 15' separation, 19"  deep in damp sand, I had to dig for the 16" bolt.
It appears even the 20lb. compound would be capable of killing a deer or pig.
Likely a waste of time and money, but who knows?
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

Alboy

Don
 
Real changes from when I tried bow hunting. I won't go into how many years ago that was.
 
As I read them there is no minimum draw weight for a regular bow. 125 for a crossbow but using a cross bow during special deer bow season requires you to have a Dr's permit of upper body problems on your person while hunting. Page 56 of the OUTDOOR ANNUAL under CROSSBOW near the bottum of the page. It is legal for anyone during all other legal seasons except muzzle loader.

Just trying to keep on the good side of the funny hat boys.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

drinksgin (deceased)

Al, call '1 800 792 1112,  the lady will tell you the changes passed and no permit or Dr.'s letter is needed now.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

Alboy

Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

Brithunter

Hmmm Gitano I never thought about using a rake. We have several rakes of about three different styles :confused: will give a try later this morning.

As for last nights session ........................... well after Paul one of the clubs officailly reconised coaches, reconised by one of the UK's archery associations, set up the bow properly. I had moved the limb bolts not realising that they are set up and left alone and the Internaional fitting limbs just snap in :Banghead: but even when it was assembled well it needs tweaking as the string is too short so the bracing height is wrong :frown  and the knocking point on the string was not in the correct place and the "button" was not out far enough and had too little tension. That's been sorted out for now but after tonights session I will leave the bow with Paul and his father and they will make up a new correct length "Fastflight" string properly set up so that the bracing height is correct as well. They charge about $7US to make up a new string :smiley: .

Now for your amusement last nights session:-

After the debacle in the field at home I decided to play safe an use the beginners target at 10 yards which was good decision it seems as for me the Bow shot left and would possibly have missed the target at 20 yards :eek: . After several "rounds" I started moving the sight to bring POI central. I had three arrows fly sideways from the string clattering into the riser :eek: . It seems that these new Fibreglass arrows might have faulty nocks. I thought it was me at first but it happened whilst Paul was watching my stance and release and he said I hadn't caused it so???  It seems that the nocks are breaking:confused: . I will phone the shop they came from in a little while to discuss it with them.

Now the draw weight was not the problem I had expected so the idea of getting lighter limbs is shelved .......................... at least for now :) . I spent just over 2 hours shooting the Bow :smiley: .

Oh Gitano ................ I sneaked a look at the arrows being used by those who compete and we have several members who travel round competing in competitions in the club. One (a lady) is trying to get considered for selction for the 2012 Olympics and they use small diameter shafts. They looked to be about 5mm maybe 6mm. Paul uses Carbon/Alloy (re-curve)arrows and the lady with the Compound bow uses carbon arrows I believe.

I also saw one member using a rather nice long bow, the kit used is very varied and last night was a quieter session with not as many attending. We will see what tonight brings. Next week they moving indoors, into the village hall for the evening sessions due to failing light but it seems that the field can be used during the day. Once I join the club properly I will find out about that.
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

Quotebut even when it was assembled well it needs tweaking as the string is too short so the bracing height is wrong :frown and the knocking point on the string was not in the correct place and the "button" was not out far enough and had too little tension
I'm surprised you could hit the broad side of a barn with that set-up!!! Getting the local expert to set your bow up will help EMMENSELY! You'll LIKE the results a LOT more now.
 
As for the thin arrows seen used by the potential Olympic shooter, maybe the Olympics have a diameter constraint. It wouldn't surprise me.
 
Paul[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Well I now have a dilema :undecided: it seems that there is a 60 yard competition on the club's field on Sunday. Now on Sunday I was intending to go to the rifle range as I put it off last Sunday due to the high winds. If the weather is good I would like to go the the rifle range but I would also like to watch this competition and see what goes on :confused: .

The evening it was quiter with less people and we found out that my draw was wrong :shy: my right hand was too low causing the arrows to go low which explains why the sight had to be so low on it's staff the get in the centre area of the target at even 10 yards. Tonight I shot at 20 yards, still baby steps :) of course, and we also discovered that due to the incorrect right hand position I was drawing the full length of the bow hence it was easier.

After two nights fairly intensive shooting my fingers on my right hand are a little sore as are my shoulders so the rest until next Wednesday when I will get the chance to try out  the bow finally set up as it should be.

As for the thin arrows well it would appear it's to do with speed. My fatter cheap heavy arrows are certainly slower and it seems that after this weekend the lady shooter will change over to fatter heavier arrows to shoot the shorter distance indoors.

I will look into lighter arrows at a latter date once I get more consistant in my stance, draw and release and hopefully a bit fitter, or at least mymuscles will be trained a bit better meaning I will not waver about as much whilst on aim at full draw :shy: .

Oh you will laugh but for some reason I cannot get my head around this dipping bow idea after the shot and yes this bow is set up that way complete with wrist strap and long rod out front, OK I understand that you don't grip the riser with the left hand but on release I naturally grab the riser :Banghead: .
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

The diameter isn't an absolute indicator of weight.
 
This is where spine comes into play. You can have a VERY "fat" (large diameter) aluminum arrow with thin walls and light weight. It will still have a pretty good spine due to the diameter. These are the target arrows used over here in the US - at least in Alaska.
 
By the same token, you can have a very small diameter fiberglas arrow that weighs 'half the mass of the earth'. In the end it's the TOTAL arrow weight, (shaft + fletching + nock + point = "arrow"), that you have to attend to. Some people spend a lot of time matching point weight to shaft weight and length, and to some degree it matters, but for the most part, any target/field tip, (as opposed to a hunting tip), will sit on any shaft and not make a noticable difference.
 
As for "rotation after release", it's a lot like "pull" vs "squeeze" in rifle shooting. "Grabbing" the bow is about as bad for accuracy as "pulling" the trigger on a rifle is. It's usually insignificant in the hunting fields, but could mean the difference between finishing "in the money" and not, for target shooting.
 
I'd go to the rifle range, but then I've seen an arrow or two slung at targets.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Ahhhh I have a cunning plan :biggthumpup: Hmmm have not seen that for a while :( . I will enquire when the competition is on, times etc for Sunday, as they are setting up the Field on Saturday afternoon it seems. I wonder if I might be able to do both. Greedy I know but :greentongue: .

However I have a feeling that if I try that i might miss out on one or both. Cunning plans never seem to work out.

Meanwhile I joined the club last night and have my membership card which means that I can use the field any time I wish :biggthumpup: and I have also been given permission to go and shoot Wabbits on the field :biggthumpup: this came after I commented on the Wabbits hopping about behind the targets in the flood light last night. Me is a happy bunny :) .

Now all I need to complete it all is to find a local farmer willing to part with 4 big square hay/straw bales to act as a back stop to catch any of my wayward arrows on our field out back and get the wood to make a target stand and got the used target roundal from the club and I will be all set :hat: .
Go Get them Floyd!

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