Let's see...
 
Mark,
 
First, it wasn't my box of ammo, and it wasn't my rifle in which the misfire occurred. I most certainly was NOT looking for a 'freebe" when I wrote them. It actually, was a little test. They failed.
 
Teddy12B,
 
There's so much fundamentally both technically and philosophically wrong with your posts that it's far too tedious to address them. You clearly like Remington. Good for you. Before this little affair, so did I. Among the differences between us is that I can see when smoke is being blown in my face. Comes from years of having smoke blown in my face. :) I wish you and Remington all the best.
 
Paul

Wellll...just gotta stick in my oar again.

This business about a firearm misfiring every once in a great while is consistent with my experience.  Firearms can, and do, get a piece of grit or unburned powder between the firing pin and the internal bolt opening.  Firing pin protrussion is about .060" and the combination of an obstructed firing pin and the tollerances with the primer itself can cause misfires.  There are cases where primers have been found to be too 'sensitive' and actually detonate when the bolt is slammed forward.  Manufacturers work diligently to maintain quality control but some, obviously, slip by.  This is why we have 'recalls'...on just about every kind of product you can name...not just firearm related products.

Firing pins...they make replacements!  You can figure out why.

Unburnt powder...if you have not run into this then you have not done a lot of reloading.

Primer pocket depth...they make gauges for this...there must be some variation.

Primers...with very serious reloaders these are purchased in bricks by lot number.  There must be a reason.

Liability...over the telephone folks can and do say whatever they care to...this is why the manufacturers require products to be returned for personal examination.  With reloading this can be a real Gordian Knot.  Consider...someone purchases a box of unloaded, primed, virgin brass.  How long do they keep it before reloading?  Did they purchase it at a gun show?  And how long has it been stored before being loaded?

Now if you received a telephone call from a stranger who had something you had originally made and you kept in mind the following: 1) There are a lot of folks looking for 'settlements', 2) there are anti whatervers willing to drag you down, 3) there are a lot of lawyers looking for work....What would be your initial response?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't contact manufacturers for satisfaction on any particular product...but keep in mind the above...and then factor in whoever is answering the telephone and the vagaries of oral rather than written inquiries.

I've never had any personal problem with 'old' ammunition...civilian or military.  The only two incidents I can recall when miliary ammunition malfunctioned has to do with a handgun and a semi-automatic rifle.  An acquaintance was rapid firing a 1917 S&W in .45 Auto Rim.  Pow, pow, pow, pop, bang!  An instant 'snub nose' was created.  The other was that Egyptian semi-auto (Hakim I think).  Fella was shooting it about 20 yards away from me.  One of the shots sounded strange and I looked over...he was holding his arm.  The cartridge had blown out the bottom the rifle and a steel splinter had cut his forearm.

When the muzzle loaders came back into common use (early 70s I think), there was trouble with the percussion caps.  Navy Arms started producing some good ones and I stuck with those for a while until other manufactuers followed suit.  RWS was always good and I still have some of those.

No, I have no axe to grind with the old line makers of firearms and ammunition.  It is only in their best interests to maintain their reputations.  Quality control is never perfect and I only start to yo-yo when the lack thereof causes injury or death.  If it damages my firearm...why then I start getting slitty-eyed.

Well..... Then I'm not gonna let go of this either, until what I am complaining about is acknowledged. So that there can be NO confusion:
 
 
IT WAS NOT THE MISFIRE!


Misfires happen for all the reasons that everyone has mentioned. Those reasons WERE NOT the cause of this misfire. IT WAS THE CARTRIDGE!


I HAVE NO EXPECTATION THAT EVERY CARTRIDGE MANUFACTURED WILL FIRE WITHOUT FAIL.


Let me go back over this.
 

Quote from: RemingtonThank you for taking the time to write into us.  The shelf life of properly stored ammunition is approximately 10 years.

If ammunition is exposed to fire or if ammunition is older than shelf life, it should be taken to a law enforcement agency for proper disposal.

1) I wasn't expecting a "freebe" from Remington.
 
2) I didn't expect Remington to "fall all over themselves" thanking me.
 
3) I didn't expect Remington to issue an immediate recall of millions of .30-06 ammo made 15 years ealier.
 
4) I didn't expect to get lied to. "The shelf life of properly stored ammunition is approximately 10 years." Is a bald-faced lie. Period. And there's no need to discuss this further because there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone can say that would convince me otherwise.
 
5)"...if ammunition is older than shelf life, it should be taken to a law enforcement agency for proper disposal. Only forum decency standards prevent me from using the words I would really like, to express my feelings about this comment.

So what did I expect?
 
The simplest and most appropriate response, AND for those of you that think their response was "justified" in light of the "risk" of getting sued, would have been along the lines of this:
 
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We'll look into this, and see if there are any other reported malfunctions for this lot of ammunition.  
 
There is no admission of "guilt", AND THERE ARE NO LIES.

Apparently, their response is "fine" with some. That disturbs me greatly, because it means that you have 'bought into' the balderdash of "It's OK for manufacturers to be weasles because of all those 'evil' lawyers." How convenient for all those manufacturers that HIRE THOSE EVIL LAWYERS. This response is NOT "fine" with me, and I'm NOT going to make excuses for them because of their reputation. This response is NOT fine, because it reflects a willingness to be dishonest in customer relations OVER A TRIVIAL MATTER. Does it mean Remington makes crappy firearms? NO.  Does the misfire mean Remington makes crappy AMMO -NO! Does it mean that Remington will lie over trivial matters and therefore will CERTAINLY lie over matters of more importance? ABSOLUTELY! AND THAT'S WHY THIS RESPONSE ISN'T "FINE", OR JUSTIFIABLE, OR REASONABLE, OR IN ANY OTHER WAY, "DEFENSABLE".

Lies, gentlemen, are lies. And they speak volumes about character.

Since it seems so difficult to understand, I'll repeat;


IT WAS NOT THE MISFIRE!
 
 
Paul

First off, I am a fan of Remington.  I'm comfortable enough to admit it.  I'm also a fan of EVERY firearms manufacturer out there because I can't say I wouldn't love to have a Winchester, Savage, Marlin, Bushmaster, and the rest of them.  Folks I honestly think that some guns are better than others but I put the blame or praise of good shooting in the hands of the shooter and the chosen caliber.  I can't say I'm too proud that I would turn away any gun a manufacturer would make for a reasonable price.  I don't really see the point in hating any certain brands, but that's just me and apparently I don't know anything.



All I can say is an open mind is a beautiful thing.  "And there's no need to discuss this further because there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone can say that would convince me otherwise."  That statement really disappointed me.







Teddy12B,

There's so much fundamentally both technically and philosophically wrong with your posts that it's far too tedious to address them. You clearly like Remington. Good for you. Before this little affair, so did I. Among the differences between us is that I can see when smoke is being blown in my face. Comes from years of having smoke blown in my face. I wish you and Remington all the best.

Paul



Could explain what is "fundamentally both technically and philosophically" wrong with my post?  I do clearly like Remington.  I do clearly like Winchester.  I do clearly like Marlin.  I do clearly like Springfield.  I do clearly like Savage.  I do clearly like Colt.  I do clearly like Ruger.  I do clearly like about every rifle ever made.  Some fit me better than others, some seem better built to me than others, but that does not mean that the same rifle wouldn't be perfect for someone taller, shorter, thinner, bigger, or whatever the case may be.



So because they didn't tell you that they would be looking into the problem you're upset?  Wow!  Maybe the next time I have a problem with a manufacturer I'll make a suggestion and let them know.  Then I should fully expect them to hold my hand and tell me that everything will be ok.

Where are the Lies?!?!?!?!  Everything on earth has a shelf life and that's what their response was.  I really don't think this is an issue of a decietful big company that's just out to get peoples money.  I really don't see what's worth getting so upset about, but I'm open to further explanation, I'll promise not to cry if I don't like it.

You know it's almost laughable...as a matter of fact, I laughed out loud. This is so typical. There is no accountability anymore. The proper response should have been along these lines.....Thank you for taking the time to report this anomoly. We have forwarded your report to the quality control branch who will conduct a investigation in regard to this lot of ammunition. We take great pride in our  quality control standards here at Remington and strive to produce a product  with  zero  defects. Your report will be  acted on immediately. Sincerely,  bla bla bla.
 
It will be very interesting to see how Leupold handles my screw report. Anybody care for a small wager that I get a similar response? Regards, Rick.

Turns out Leupold had a great response to your screw problem.  As I would have guessed!  I have delt with them for a coons age and have nothing but good to say about them.  Good people and only 5 hours drive south of home.  They really have great products and customer service.  As with everyone in the world though, we are all human and prone to make mistakes, but at least Leupold has a good solution to your problem.  

Remingtons remarks were vague but its to be expected from a company that is dealing with so many customers.  Perhaps you should make up a fake problem and present it to Remington and see what they say next time.  Most of the time the bigger a company gets the less you should expect from customer service.  I am not at all surprised by Remingtons reply to you Paul.  Not as sugar coated as one would like but what can you expect really?  Especially nowadays.

I have been out of the net for awhile (working too hard) and missed this debate.  However, I'm on Paul's side on this one.   I have been a big Remington fan for years but of late I am loosing faith in their products, especially factory loaded ammo.  I really do not think Paul is asking too much here.  They did not have to admit any liability, just acknowledge that it happened and they cared about it.  If they do not care, I can choose to do business with someone who does.