My brother and I was talking about which bullet/pellet does more damage to a bird, for example a crow.
A solid non hollow point 22lr bullet or a 25 caliber air gun pellet?
The speed would be at 1033 fps at muzzle for 22lr and a 40 grains bullet.
Air gun pellet speed at 880 fps and weight 25 grains.
Chest or side shot.
My money is on the pellet, what do you think?

I`d say either is gonna give any bird a dirt nap.  A hollow point 22. cal rifle bullet will devastate a crow.  The deciding factor  between the two might be the range.  I`ve brought down many a crow with my 22 cal  single pump air rifle.  A chest shot eliminates the possibility of a broken wing  side shot with sometimes little internal damage.  My air rifle also prefers `heavy` pellets which also carries   more down range  knock-down power.
 
  JaDub

While I "like" airguns and have 'dispatched' many a bunny and bird with one, when we're talking "small" caliber, energy matters and the firearm has the energy game won. In the examples you give above, the .22 generates 95 ft-lbs at the muzzle. Conversely, the .25 generates 43. Less than half of the .22's energy.

One might argue that "down-range" energies might be closer. While theoretically possible, it is HIGHLY unlikely. It would be difficult for a 25-grain projectile to have a ballistic coefficient higher than a 45-grain even though the 25-grain projectile is slightly larger in diameter.

At short ranges - say 25' and less - there would likely be no detectable difference. At ranges beyond that, not only would the .22 hit "harder", it would also have a flatter trajectory.

All of that said, I am intrigued by the .25 cal 'pellet gun'. I don't recall seeing that caliber readily available on this side of "The Pond". "Big around" matters... at least to me.

Paul

I hunt a lot of crows and magpie´s, lately most magpie around a fox farm. It´s a lot of small young trees and bushes there.
 
The 12 gauge shotgun is the best even for sitting birds at 30 meters maximum (full choke).
But it got a little bit boring plus the loud noise disturbs the foxes during birth time.
2 years ago I started shooting them with a silenced 22lr and it works to when no branches are in the way.
The 22lr´s bullet can be dangerous at 1 kilometre away and there are more farms in that range.
A friend owns a Hatsan at 44 in cal 25 (they are common and rather cheap here)
He shot 2 magpies and they were instantly dead, yes they die to with the 22lr.
However the pellets "air travel" (I don´t know the word) is maybe 250 meters, that means a lot safer.

The BC value wouldn't affect the killing power at semiclose range 10-50 meters I think, It is more which projectile does more damage passing throe
 
I forgot to write distance in the earlier post.

Given your circumstances, and real-life experience, I'd be using the .25 pellet too. And I wouldn't be "worrying" about it. If it flattens them at the ranges you are using it, then it 'works'. Generally speaking, I don't argue with "works". :)

Some of us here live vicariously through other people's hunting. Pictures help that. We'd love to see some pictures of dead critters as well as your countryside.

Paul

I get right on it:D Here is a picture of the Hatsan, I have to buy one to.
It have a surprisingly loud sound so a silencer is a must.
This rifle shoots 5 shots in a coin at 50 meters.
It´s set at maximum power and gives about 15 shots at the same speed.
After that its hard pumping for about 5 minutes to regain 210 bar pressure.

" Sit still please, mister magpie, I have to pump my gun":laugh:

Even more interesting! As I understand it, you pump up a reservoir that is then used for multiple shots. Hmm.. The "pre-charged" air-guns I am familiar with are charged with a compressor or you charge a "bottle" and attach it to the rifle. (Here is an example: http://www.airforceairguns.com/)

That looks like a 'serious' pellet-gun. How much would one of those cost you in Finland?

Paul

This looks like that rifle. Very nice specs!

http://www.hatsan.com.tr/PCP_at44_w_10.asp

Paul

The single shot version is 399€ at the moment and the pump is 199€.
There are no restrictions to the guns power in Finland, just the age 18.
Hatsan is a criticised brand, but they make acceptable air guns for hunting, I think.
The at 44 is common and lots have been modified so the knowledge about different problems is good.
The guns at your link are not for sale here, but they look nice.

My friend told me he shot a Thrush at 50 meters with his Hatsan. It was sitting in a tree, that is acceptable!
I think it would kill a hare to.

I've taken many rabbits with my pump single-shot .22 pellet gun, but none were more than probably about 15m.

This one http://www.hatsan.com.tr/PCP_BT65_SB-W.asp looks like "the cat's meow" to me. ("Cat's meow" is American for "really good".) A 27-grain, .25 caliber pellet doing 1090 f/s (330 m/s) at the muzzle would definitely be a 'killer'.

I did a little number crunching comparison between the .177, .22, and .25 calibers.

The frontal areas of them are:

.177 = 0.0246 square inches, or 15.90 square mm,
.22 = 0.0380 square inches, or 23.76 square mm,
.25 = 0.0491 square inches, or 31.67 square mm.

The .22 has a frontal area 49% larger than the .177 (half again as big).
The .25 has a frontal area 99% larger than the .177 (essentially twice as big).
The .25 has a frontal area 33% larger than the .22 (a third larger).

The manufacturer-published muzzle velocities are:
.177 - 1250 f/s, (380 m/s),
.22 - 1180 f/s, (360 m/s), and
.25 - 1090 f/s, (330 m/s).
 
The muzzle energies are therefore:
30 ft-lbs, (40 joules),
45 ft-lbs, (61 joules), and
52 ft-lbs, (70 joules).

The .25 definitely "wins" in my book.

Paul

Yes, I seen the Bt 65 but I think it´s uglier than the At 44. The numbers Hatsan provides is a little exaggerated, at least that´s the rumour. Still it´s a powerful air gun.
There is a Swedish company, FX air guns, they make good PCP´s too. They cost more than Hatsan but are good guns.

Don't under rate the Benjamin guns too.

I have killed a coyote with a .25 Marauder at 40 yards with a shot to the head...



My Benjamin Rogue .357 will be here next week.... I have the tracking number. :D
It will be interesting to see what all I can get down with a 140 grain nosler ballistic tip at over 900 fps.

Nice, my friend and I was following a "wild" cat near the fox farm, it got away and we was´t sure if the power was enough for cat. That coyote is bigger so a headshot will down a cat to, I guess.

Does the Marauder have any problems? Magazine not indexing, uneven air flow, etc.