I have had so many problems with so many rifles I was feeling blue. However, armed with new data from Paul and a fresh "can do" spirit I elected to take on the ultimate challenge, the Ugly Duckling. First, over coffee, I studied the scope mounts and scope operation. Since it is all German, I tried to think like a technition. However, it would seem our German friends didn't think things out the well afterall!:Banghead: . You see, the windage *****s are on the front mount, not the rear like we are use to. So, if you want to move the POI left.....you must move the adjustment......further right. Now, the scope is another problem. The scope knob on top ot the Hensoldt Wetzlar moves the entire reticle up and down.....sounds easy........NOT. To move the POI down, you have to move the whole reticle UP! Thinking done, we move on to Paul's load theory......

Paul has done very sophisticated testing on the 8mm Mauser round and he is right as rain. I ran my own tests and found that there is no way you can overcharge a 8MM JS cartridge with IMR4064......the primers don't flatten, the primer holes stay tight, the brass looks new, the bolt doesn't care and the chamber/barrel seem to like the moderately higher pressures.

And now, off to the range.....I'll let the pictures do the talking. The load I ended with is still 1/10 grain less than the Sierra manual. If you've been blowing off the 8mm Mauser cartridge like I have for the past umteen years, you are sadly mistaken. Questions answered to the best of my technical skills.....others directed to Paul. OBTW...forget any bullets heavier than 150gr in a K-98.

Finally, happy Father's day. Regards, Rick.

Looks like a doable for deer or most anything else to me. Congrats on the work up and finding a shooter.
 
Oh yea HAPPY FATHERS DAY

Hi All,

   Hmmm now Rick my friend it seems that you have been spoiled in the past . Moving reticle scopes were once common and the arrangement is said to be strounger than the moving image which we are all familar with now in modern scopes.

    If you stop and think a little is does make sense, oh I am talking about the reticle adjustment .... sorry for that, raising the rectilce in the scope view means that you of course lower teh whole outfit to point the now higher aim point on your target. Along this line of thought it's also logical to have the rectilce coming down from the top of the view ratehr than seem to be normal stickign up from the bottom. Why ............................. well you have to aim high for a longer shot with teh normal set up you obscure the target but if the reticle comes down in the field of view you don't cover up your target :smiley:  of course in hunting this can have drawbacks as it then obscures your view of behind the target so you cannot check for objects you do not wish to shoot like other people .

   May I also humbly suggest that you try some of the S&B 196 Grn SPCE ammo. It shoots quite well in my  rilfe and I ahve heard good reports of other using it with Mauser 98's.

This K98 (Steyr) has a one in 11 twist as best as I can measure. I'm pretty sure it isn't goin to stabalize a heavier than 150gr bullet. The 180 gr Noslers shot a 3 inch group.

It all makes sense to me now.....just used to modern applications. Moving the front sight on a MILSURP rifle does the same thing.....The scope reticle was the hard deal to overcome. I plan on sighting in 2 inches high at 100 which yields zero at 200 and 3 inches low at 250. I have a small bean field that is 185 yards from the stand North and 235 yards from the stand South.....I perfect set up for Mr. Big! I doubt the scope will ever be adjusted again. This particular Mauser feeds better than anything I've ever had my hands on. It's a dream rifle!

I'm 99% sure this is a post war German set up. I have never seen a K-98 trigger with added *****s for creep and pull. It breaks at 3 pounds....zero creep. I wonder what a trigger job like that would cost today? Regards, Rick.

Looking good Rick. Are you going to use that for deer this year? I respectfully disagree with your assessment on heavier bullets in the K-98. My BNZ43 K98 likes the Remington 185gr CoreLock and RL-15. It pushes them at 2650fps and will group under an inch with a Weaver K4 scope. I've killed deer and loaned it to a kid that killed a cow elk with it.
 

Beautiful rifle HB. I'm sure there are thousands of Mausers the like the heavier bullets....the Duck sure doesn't. What is the twist of your barrel. You would think the K98's had a standard barrel??? Regards, Rick.

I don't know what the twist is, I'll have to check that. I agree that you would think that it would be standard as they all used the 150gr bullets but that just goes to show you about each rifle being it's own story.

Hi All,

     I just looked up the details of the specs from the Mausers original spec sheets re-printed in the book :-

"Original Mauser Sporting rifles"

   It gives the rifling twist for 8x57 as 310mm which is about 1 in 12"  Ahhhh reading it again as it's in German and I don't do German :undecided: . it list the 8x57 for the Mod 98 seperate as 240mm which is 1 in 9.44".

   Now I find it strange that the earlier specs which had the 220 grn RN bullet like the original mod 88 Mauser has a slower twist as I always thought it required a faster rifling twist for longer bullets?

I just ran another twist check on my Steyr and it is one in 11 1/2. I just don't see how this barrel will stabalize a heavier than 150gr bullet. The only thing I can come up with is that Germany was losing a desperate war and thousands of bombs dropped on Weimar, Oberndorf and other plants. Perhaps older rifling equipment was brought out of the caves.....lets face it, they were desperate. There is no way a one in eleven twist will stabalize a heavy bullet.....Gyroscopic Precession, COG and speed make this unlikely. I think, therefore, that there are many K98's out there with various twists. Where are you Paul? Regards, Rick.

Brithunter, any chance you can scan those spec sheets and send them to me?  My German isn't perfect, but I manage pretty well.

Quote from: RatherBHuntin;63296Brithunter, any chance you can scan those spec sheets and send them to me? My German isn't perfect, but I manage pretty well.

Hello BH....me too! I'm going to check mine again when I get a chance, regards, Rick.

Hi Guys,

    Hmmm I will try but the scanner I now have is awful to use  it's a Mustek and Oh how I wish mt HP 3200 had not blow a resistor  as that was a joy to use. Also I will have to set the scanner up on Mum's computer as I still have not web access on mine.

   Which reminds me I must phone up about the new Motherboard for that Packard-Bell I picked up.

Let me know the length of the bullet(s) you're interested in and I can give you some numbers.
 
In the interim, I'm very interested in Hornady's 195-grain 8mm (.323") "International". It is 1.1" long. According to all three of the formulae I have available to me, a 1:12 twist rate is FULLY CAPABLE of stabilizing that bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2600 f/s. Any added MV and stability is simply improved. To give an objective value to what "FULLY CAPABLE" means, one of the formulae I use calculates a "stability factor" with the following meaning:
 
A SF of less than 1.0 means the bullet is not stable.
A SF of more than 1.0 but less than 1.3, means the bullet is "marginally" stable.
A SF of more than 1.5 means the bullet is "maximally" stablized.
 
The SF for the 195 at 2600 f/s and a 1:12 twist is 2.96.
The maximum bullet length to remain above an SF of 1.5 with a 195-grain 8mm bullet is 1.39"
The minimum twist rate to maintain a 1.5 SF or better with a 195-grain 8mm bullet that is 1.1" long and doing 2600 f/s is 1:20.2"
The minimum muzzle velocity needed to maintain a 1.5 SF with the same bullet and a twist of 1:12 is negative 3117 f/s. In other words, ANY MV will stabilize the 195-grain bullet in a 1:12 twist barrel.
 
These calculations are from a formula provided by the guys at Aberdeen Proving Grounds as applied to "small arms external ballistics".
 
I don't think bullet stability is the problem with the 180-grain bullets.
 
Paul

I wonder why my K98 groups with 180gr Nosler look like a shotgun pattern while the 150's are sensational???? Well, I certainly have plenty of Mausers to test. Regards, Rick.

You know if it was me Rick I'd be grinning from ear to ear if I could get a light bullet to shoot as well as the heavy ones.:D
 
"One man's ceiling is another man's floor".
 
Paul