Maine Bear Hunt Referendum

Started by rednkwmn, November 03, 2004, 01:37:59 PM

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rednkwmn

Just wanted to say a big WHOO HOO!!!!  Because the bear hunt referendum which would have eliminated hunting bear over bait, with dogs, or with traps that was proposed in Maine was narrowly defeated in that state!  I went on a black bear hunt last year in Maine and it was quite an incredible experience.  The economy is horrible up there, so many towns, especially in northern Maine, really depend on the income received by out of state hunters and tourists, not to mention the tremendous impact this referendum would have had on the overall bear population if it had passed.  Congrats to all hunters and sportsmen for getting out and voting yesterday!   :D

gitano

Same thing in ALaska, with the same result. In Alaska, it was pretty soundly defeated. There's a nation-wide effort by PETA and their ilk behind this. (No that's not conspiracy theorizing.)  The biggest shame is the "sportsmen's" groups that are jumping on the bandwagon.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

teddy12b

I've been thinking about a bear hunt, but anytime I mention it to anyone that there will be bait involved they are quick to cast a shamefull look.  How can I desribe to these people that it's not as simple as the bear just showing up on a schedualed feeding.  I would love to hear some bear hunting stories.

maine_hunter

We are all happy up here election night I was on the edge of my seat all night watching the results come in. I'm glad that we all joined together to defeat this.

drinksgin (deceased)

I do not live in Maine, I do not hunt bear,[in Texas they are completely protected], I have an idea much of the opposition to baiting game is caused by the very widespread feeding and feed plots being developed in many states.

In Texas, automatic feeders and feed items, corn, pellets and other grains are used by the thousands of tons each year, in the small town I live in, pop. 2400, there are at least 6 places selling feed and 4 selling feeders, deer are considered a cash crop and are managed and "culled" to make bigger and better racks, "improved " blood line bucks are purchased at high prices from out of state, places as small as 40 acres are being high fenced to control and manage the deer, all this in a state where all native wild animals are public property by law.
Basically, deer are becoming domestic animals and being sold on the hoof to the highest bidder.
I am an old fossil, but this is just not hunting wild game to me.
Backlash to these practices is becoming evident in a number of states and I can only expect it to increase in the future.  
Don
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

rednkwmn

Quote from: teddy12bI've been thinking about a bear hunt, but anytime I mention it to anyone that there will be bait involved they are quick to cast a shamefull look. How can I desribe to these people that it's not as simple as the bear just showing up on a schedualed feeding. I would love to hear some bear hunting stories.
It is certainly not as "simple" as a bear just "showing up for dinner" by any means!  And if you really think about it, people use "bait" a lot more than they realize.  If you fish, you use bait or a lure.  Those fish don't just happen to see an empty hook hanging in the water and decide to chomp down on it!  If you use doe estrus when hunting deer or hunt over a deer feeder, or a clover plot you have planted, those are all types of bait.  (One being a food lure the other being a hormonal lure.)  They are "attractants" to get the animal to come to you.  If you hunt ducks with decoys, and use duck calls, you are "baiting" them in with sight and sound.  So what is the difference if you have a bucket full of doughnuts hanging on a wire and a bear just happens to come in to feed on it?  In addition, that bear could just as easily climb up that tree you're sitting in before you have a chance to reload and reverse those tables of who is the hunter and who is the prey!  Just because you have a bait bucket sitting there, that doesn't mean the bear is going to come to it.  I hunted for an entire week and only saw one bear.  I took my shot at him and thought for sure he would drop right there on the spot because he was flopping around on the ground so much, but then he suddenly jumped up and took off running for the swamp.  And let me tell you, I was scared half out of my mind!  There was NO WAY I was going to get down out of that tree stand and go look for him!  I waited for my guide to show up when it was time to come get me and once he and the other hunters in my group were all gathered underneath my stand, THEN I finally climbed down and we all went looking for the bear.  We had a nice blood trail to follow, but he ran straight for the swamp and once we reached the water, we lost the trail.  We even got the dogs out to try to track him, but they lost the scent once they hit the swamp.  We tried looking all around the swamp, in all the little hollows and crevices, but never found him.  So all I have to show for my trip is a big chunk of hair that I found underneath the bait bucket.  Would I go do it again if I could?  ABSOLUTELY!!!!!  But who knows if I will ever get that opportunity.  It was the chance of a lifetime and I enjoyed every minute of it, even if I don't have a bear rug on my floor to show for it.

[font='Times New Roman']My personal opinion is that hunting bear over bait is more fair than using dogs or trapping, but I am sure there are others (like my husband) who would disagree.  To me the bear has the choice of whether or not to come to my bait bucket, and he could easily run away if he caught my scent or heard me make a noise or saw me move.  I could also get a severe case of "bear fever" and miss, and that's it.  You might be able to get another round off as he is running away from you, but you are more likely to miss again since it is now a moving target and your entire body is probably still shaking so bad from the adrenaline rush.  With dogs, you chase him until he runs up a tree and then you just keep shooting until you knock him out of it.  If you miss the first time, so what?  The bear can't exactly go anywhere except back down the tree and chances are good that you will get him before he gets down or be able to re-tree him again until you do finally get him.  Yes, I do know that he could out-run the dogs or even attack the dogs (or hunters) in return, but my own personal opinion is that hunting over bait is more fair and more humane.  My husband prefers hunting with dogs.  He used to help his uncle who was a guide in New Mexico and he loved the thrill of the "chase".  Of course his uncle was the one who got to do all the chasing and then once they had a bear treed, my husband would bring in the hunter to get the bear.  I suppose if I were doing the chasing, maybe I could see the excitement of that, but I don't see any sport in walking up to a tree with a bear stuck in it that my guide chased there and shooting it down.          [/font]

teddy12b

I agree completely with you rnkwmn.  I have tryed to explain the same concept to my brother who is an amazing fly fisherman.  For some reason people just don't seem to think of it on the same level as putting a worm on a hook.  I agree with you that baiting is just part of hunting.  That was an amazing bear hunt story!  I can't blaim you for not getting down from your tree for a while.  I would have done the same thing.

gitano

In large part, I agree with Don. I would add a couple of "amplifiers", if you will. In Alaska, the "money factor" was exactly the opposite from that in Texas. The anti-baiting position was heavily supported by the guiding industry. The primary reason being that it is the guide's attitude that if bear-baiting is illegal, more people will hire guides to hunt bears. (The stupidity of this opinion is not suprising considering the source.) I would also add that bear-baiting in Alaska is considerably more complicated than simply setting out some appropriate bear food. Every bait station I am aware of is located in VERY remote locales. In Alaska, that means you can't drive there. Most(NOT all) require either boats or airplanes to access. If you want to use a bait station, you have to attend a state-sanctioned training program, and there are numerous restrictions not only on when you can bait, but where and in what proximity to "civilization". Bear baiting is not the lazy man's bear hunting in Alaska. In fact, the statistics suggest just the opposite. Most black bears (you can't bait browns or grizzlies), are shot "incidently" while hunting other animals - about 87% if I remember correctly. About 10% are shot using guides, and the balance of approximately 3% are shot over bait.
 
Rednkwoman, I was "with you" for a bit, but sadly, you digressed into what is the very thing that is tearing the heart out of hunting in this country. Namely, "Whatever I do is morally and ethically fine, but what you do is morally and ethically wrong." You spend considerable time defending baiting, then attack coursing with hounds. I've coursed 'coons with hounds, and it is some of the most fun I've had in my entire life. Once the 'coon (or cougar or bear or bobcat) is treed, killing it is OPTIONAL, and MOST of the people I know that aren't guides, call the dogs off, and let the animal go.
 
This is not unlike the attitudes surounding coursing deer with dogs. Talk about doing that in Montana and the locals are likely to start using phrases like "lynch 'em" or "let's kill the scum". However, those people have never hunted the jungles of Georgia, where coursing is (or was last time I was there) legal. When last I was in Georgia, the bag limit on deer over a season at least 3 months long was one PER DAY. If you've ever been in Georgia's swamps, you'll know that it's impossible to hunt unless you clear "shooting lanes" and hunt from a stand, OR, you use coursing hounds, and hope the deer gives you a fleeting shot as it speeds through the swamp.
 
There are many methods of hunting used around the world that I personally would not choose to employ. HOWEVER, I WILL NOT CONDEMN those that do, as "unethical" or use any other derogatory term to describe them. This is precisely what the antis and state fascists WANT. The antis want to divide and conquer, and the fascists want enthusiastic volunteer spies that foolishly believe it's a matter of "ethics".
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

rednkwmn

#8
Quote from: gitanoRednkwoman, I was "with you" for a bit, but sadly, you digressed into what is the very thing that is tearing the heart out of hunting in this country. Namely, "Whatever I do is morally and ethically fine, but what you do is morally and ethically wrong." You spend considerable time defending baiting, then attack coursing with hounds. I've coursed 'coons with hounds, and it is some of the most fun I've had in my entire life. Once the 'coon (or cougar or bear or bobcat) is treed, killing it is OPTIONAL, and MOST of the people I know that aren't guides, call the dogs off, and let the animal go.
 
There are many methods of hunting used around the world that I personally would not choose to employ. HOWEVER, I WILL NOT CONDEMN those that do, as "unethical" or use any other derogatory term to describe them. This is precisely what the antis and state fascists WANT. The antis want to divide and conquer, and the fascists want enthusiastic volunteer spies that foolishly believe it's a matter of "ethics".
 
Paul
Paul, please forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was NOT trying to CONDEMN hunting with dogs, I was only stating what my own personal opinion on it was, and I also said that I know others think of it differently, including my husband. I never said anything was "morally or ethically wrong", in fact I never used the word "ethical" at all. I only said that I thought one method was more fair, in my own PERSONAL OPINION than another. It was only a statement of my opinion, not a judgement or condemnation on anyone who uses dogs to hunt. I have never hunted with dogs I only know of the stories my husband has told me about the times he helped his uncle. He told me his uncle would tree a bear and then he would bring in the hunter to take it. If it were me doing the hunting, I would not want to do it that way because I could not see the sport in it. What I was trying to say, if I may use your own words, is that this is just "a method of hunting that I personally would not choose to employ." I also would not choose to emply trapping an animal, but I do not condemn those who do either.

I apologize if I have offended you with my comments, that was certainly not my intention. I also stated that "I suppose if I were doing the chasing, maybe I could see the excitement of that" and you stated that "MOST of the people I know that aren't guides, call the dogs off, and let the animal go." I don't know anyone who chases and then lets the animal go, but if I did, I am sure that would be something both my husband and I would want to try. Going into it knowing that we were only hunting for the "thrill of the chase", and not for the actual kill, would most likely be very exciting.
I don't want to condemn anyone for their preferred method of hunting. I am sure every single one of us has a method they prefer the most, and a multitude of reasons as to why they prefer that method. That doesn't make anyone who disagrees "wrong" or "unethical". The bottom line is that we are all HUNTERS regardless of our hunting methods, and the joyful thing is that we still have that right, that freedom, and we beat the anti-hunting referrendums that were up for a vote this year that would have restricted those rights.

 

gitano

Rednkwoman,


I wasn't offended by your post. What I wanted to point out is that it is all too common to point out the "mote" in other people's eyes while missing the "log" in our own. This type of "opining" will not lead to "good things" for hunting. Please consider the following comments you made:


Quotemore fair and more humane.
and [/color][/size][/font]


QuoteI don't see any sport in
[/color][/size][/font]

Pretty unambiguous statements in my opinion. I do not criticize, but I would ask you to carefully choose your words, and give your opinions more than casual consideration.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

Red;

I have hunted squirrel with dogs and without, with is fun if you have a dog that is trained to stay in sight of the hunter, otherwise, it becomes sort of a marathon in the woods, silent treers are best for this.
I also very much enjoy cottontailing with beagles, but we often did that with out even taking a gun along, just go to the brush patch, turn 2 or 3 beagles out and lean back against a tree and listen, really nice.
:D    Don
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

davidlt89

I live in northern maine, more specifically I grew up in Ashland, ME wich is the best place to hunt bear in the whole state. I, as many people, were very glad to see the referendum get defeated. I will tell you first hand that hunting bear over bait is not that easy. You do not just set bait out and wait for opening day and not every bait produces a bear. There is also alot more to it than lugging donoughts to a bait everyday. Even with trapping, dogs, and baiting, bear still have the lowest success rate in Maine. The one thing that did make me real mad about this whole thing was the hunters who sided with these people. Who is to say what is ethical and not ethical. Anybody who hunts bear up here will tell you that it is virtually impossible to see one in the woods, let alone try to stalk one. I have been on one dog hunt for bear and to tell the truth I don't think I will go on another one. The problem being is that whatever bear is treed has to be shot or the dogs loose interest. If I had 6k into each dog, I would not want that to happen either. But, I would not vote against this just to the fact there are other hunters who like to do it. I also don't agree with the trapping, but again, I still would not vote against it. We basically had a lot of hunters side with the citizens for fair bear hunting because they did not hunt bear. Some of them claimed they did but found it to be unethical and they quit. Personally I find hunting deer from a pick-up truck unethical, but I would still not vote yes on a referendum to stop it. My point being that if this group ever comes to your state, you must all stick together, wether you agree with the hunting method or not. The same group is coming back this year to try and stop trapping. You could count all the bears that were taken with traps last year with your fingers and toes. unfortunately, I think they will be successful, but I hope not. I don't like some organization from out of state telling us how to hunt our animals. All hunters must always stick together.
Romans 12:2
     
2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

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