30-06 Long Range Deer Rifle

Started by jwtrivette, November 28, 2005, 04:47:51 PM

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jwtrivette

hi I have a delima and i was just wondering if i could get some help from other hunters and other knowledgable people about guns. What i was wondering is if i could load a 30-06 110grain bullet and get 3400-3500fps using a soft point bullet do you think it will have the speed and the penatration to kill a deer at 400-600 yds?
 
Right now my brother and i have 243 Super Rock Chuckers (25-06 cassing necked down to shoot 243 bullet) Most of our deer hunting is long range 100-600yds.Shooting 87V-max we get 3500-3600fps. His is 1957 mouser axtion on 28inch #5 shilen barrel mine is 19-- Infield action with the same barrel. Both shoots sub 1/4in groops at 100 yds. The only problem is they dont leave a blood trail when you shoot a deer . Eight out of every 10 deer we shoot does not have a blood trail. I shot a 6 point last week at 100 yds and no blood. My brother has killed 2 at 560yds but still no blood. Just wondering if we should go with the 06 option stated above or maybe get away from the balistic tip or maybe go to a heavyer bullet?
 
Looking Forward to your comments. Thanks
 
A bad day hunting is always better than a good day at work.
A bad day hunting is always better than a good day at work

Hunterbug

Welcome to the forum. You are way better off with a heavier bullet. The light ones shed speed and energy too fast. I would try a 165gr Ballistic Tip at 2900fps.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

drinksgin (deceased)

For what you are after, either move up to a .338 Lapua, .50 BMG or a .45-70 with mortar sights.
;D
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

Gmoney

Quote from: jwtrivetteMost of our deer hunting is long range 100-600yds.Shooting 87V-max we get 3500-3600fps.
 
This is the reason you are not getting a blood trail with your .243 wildcat.....you are shooting a bullet constructed for varmints on medium sized game.....I would not suggest doing this at 50 yards let alone 600 yards......will probably get a large majority of wounded deer no matter the marksmanship......
 
 I would suggest an '06 with a much heavier bullet than what you mentioned...a 150, 165, 180, or 200 grain will better suit your long range shooting and will result in much more reliable, consistent kills, with a blood trail.....
-Greg
 
Personal field testing trumps everything no matter what Field and Stream says, what your degree of perceived manhood is, or what your buddies think.

buckshot roberts

;) Dang man just call in a air-strike on them, using your PR77.
:D Hey Drinksgin were can I get me one of them their mortar sights for my model 86 45/70.
:) Hey Jwtrivette, I'm just been funny, one to many, try the 200 or 220, 30/06, as my friend Hunterbug said , I used the 220 but can't get a good group  under 1 1/2 out of my model 70.
:D Hey did I welcome you to THL.
We got too complicated......It\'s all way over rated....I like the old and out dated way of life........I miss back when..

jwtrivette

I just want to point out that even though we do not get a blood trail 99.0% of the time we still find the deer  it just makes it a  little harder with no blood trail. As a matter of fact we have only lost one deer that was ever hit with our guns in the last 6 years. I also understand that it is a varmit gun but im just not sure that the heavy weight 06 bullet is what i need because i will have to aim a mile over its back  in order to lob a 200 grain going 2200fps to reach 500 yards
A bad day hunting is always better than a good day at work

Daryl (deceased)

Try a 7mm RUM. Shoots fast, flat, and it'll leave an exit hole.
 
Most of these fellas would agree that loosing one is one too many.  A good blood trail sure ups the odds, and dropping them in their tracks is even better.
 
Daryl
A government that abrogates any of the Bill of Rights, with or without majoritarian approval, forever acts illegitimately, becomes tyrannical, and loses the moral right to govern-Jeffrey Snyder
 

RIP Linden33

Hunterbug

Quote from: jwtrivetteI will have to aim a mile over its back in order to lob a 200 grain going 2200fps to reach 500 yards
You can hit 2900fps with a 165gr and 2600 with a 200gr bullet out of a 30-06. But I do agree with Daryl, one is too many.
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.
 
 
The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli

gitano

While I am, in general, a proponent of light-for-caliber bullets, especially for calibers greater than .264", I think the 125 in .30 caliber is a poor choice for the long ranges you mention. The primary reason is what HB said, namely, they have poor ballistic coefficients and shed speed, and therefore energy, very fast. There are other reasons as well though - specifically:
Quotei will have to aim a mile over its back in order to lob a 200 grain going 2200fps to reach 500 yards
So will you with the 125. What the 125 makes up (ballistically) in speed it loses (ballistically) in ballistic coefficient. Let's do some math...
 
Hmm... turned out better than I thought, but still...
 
125 grain Sierra Spitzer - BC = .279, MV = 3400, Zero Range = 200 yds
Drop at 500 yds = 39"
Energy at 500 yds = 897 ft-lbs
Velocity at 500 yds = 1800 f/s
"Taylor Index" at 500 yds = 9.9 ("Everybody" (not me) agrees that a TI of 10. is "minimum" for whitetails.)
 
200 grain Sierra Game King - BC = .552, MV = 2600, Zero Range = 200 yds
Drop at 500 yds = 51"
Energy at 500 yds = 1530 ft-lbs
Velocity at 500 yds = 1856 f/s
"Taylor Index" at 500 yds = 16.3
 
As you can see, the difference in elevation at 500 is "only" one foot; the 125 drops 3 feet, the 200, 4 feet. Clearly the 200 has way more 'punch' (almost 2x) at 500, but I am surprised at the retained energy of the 125. The point is, the 125 still requires a hold-over of more than 3' at 500 yds. That's a non-issue compared to a hold-over of 4'. Either is still A LOT of hold-over, and clearly the 200 brings more lethal energy to the target.
 
However, none of this paper-whipping addresses what I consider to be the two most salient points. First, you have to be right on with your range estimate and wind doping, regardless of which bullet you use. Range finders have at best a 1.5% error. At 500 yds, that means plus or minus 7.5 yards. Both bullets will be about 2" off if that range error is the ONLY error in the equation. The second point, is really the one that you brought up in your first post. You complain of no blood trail, which goes directly to recovery. At ranges beyond 300 yds, even in "open" country, if the animal doesn't drop at the shot, (and sometimes, even if it does) recovery can be "problematic". If you insist on taking shots at whitetails at 500+ yards, you will be better served (and they will too), if you choose a heavier bullet than the 125, and take the extra hold-over. For example:
 
180 grain Nosler Combined Technology BST- BC = .507, MV = 2900, Zero Range = 200 yds
Drop at 500 yds = 41"
Energy at 500 yds = 1650 ft-lbs
Velocity at 500 yds = 2000 f/s
"Taylor Index" at 500 yds = 16.1
 
At an impact velocity of 2000 f/s, the Silvertip is only 2" lower than the 125, and will more than likely pass through, providing the blood trail you seek. At 500+ yds, there are no bullets from the '06 that are going to drop a deer in its tracks unless the central nervous system is hit.
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

Buckshot;

Here is the "mortar sight" on my '92, .44-40.:D
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

buckshot roberts

;) Drinksgin ,Thanks now were can i get one.:D
We got too complicated......It\'s all way over rated....I like the old and out dated way of life........I miss back when..

drinksgin (deceased)

Art may have one stuck back in a drawer.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

buckshot roberts

;) Thanks, I see about get'n with him about it.:D
We got too complicated......It\'s all way over rated....I like the old and out dated way of life........I miss back when..

sakorick

Welcome my friend. I am 59 years old and have been chasing the same problem for many years. First off. you aren't going to hit many things let alone kill them at 500 yards....not with an '06, a 300rum or anything else for that matter. Sir Newton kicks in as well as a deal called Ballistic coeffecient. I don't want to confuse you, however, the little bullets are totally worthless beyond around 250 yards in a 30'06. I will PM you if interested cause it's a long story....Better yet, PM your phone number and I can explain it pretty quick. Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

jwtrivette

#14
Quote from: sakorickFirst off. you aren't going to hit many things let alone kill them at 500 yards..
I hate to dissagree but i am going too on this one we are shooting 3inch groops at 500yds with our 243SRC. Like i said earlier my brother has killed 2 deer at 560yds one dropped in its tracks and the other ran thirty yards. The problem is the blood trail the gun is plenty enough to kill the deer but it just does not come out the other side so we dont get a blood trail thats why i was wondering if the light caliber 06 would go through the deer at 400+ yards
 
We also use the 243SRC to shoot groundhogs at 0-600yards so our problem is not hitting  the target.
A bad day hunting is always better than a good day at work

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