The first time I saw this cartridge was in a 1903 Springfield that belonged to a friend of mine.  He only shot cast bullets out of it and announced that he would keep it all of his life.  I haven't seen him in about 20 years...I wonder!

The rifle was a pretty good shooter and met the requirements (at the time) of a bolt action .45-70 as opposed to the Siamese Mauser.  I'm not sure it was a good choice but it performed as advertised.

Pretty awesome round I would guess.
 
Who needs the final .5" anyway?
 
As it is strictly a handload proposition....you can dial the ballistics of this round way up to approach .458 Magnum velocities or you can dial it down and have a mild recoiling 45-70.
 
As a matter of fact.....if I ever decide to buy a 3rd barrel for my Thompson/Encore.....I am pretty sure it will be in this caliber.
 
Lets see....I'd have a .22-250IMP to take coyotes, varmints and any other plinking
The .260 Rem for deer
The .458x2 Inch for hunting Big Foot in the woods and hills of Missouri.
 
What more could a guy ask for?

With this round around, Why on earth would they go through all the trouble of making the .450 Marlin? I know the belt is slightly diffrent because the lawyers say so, but I think the wheel was already invented.

Easy answer.
 
The .485x2" would not feed in a lever action rifle as there is no rim.
 
The 45-70 and the 450 Marlin would not work in a bolt action rifle because they have rims.
 
The 444 Marlin would have the same liabilites.
 
Big bore bolt action rifles really have nothing in between the .358 Winchester and the 458 Win Mag.  
 
Yeah....this is my next barrel.....a semi bull 22" with a 3x28 scope loaded with 300 grn flat nose bullets to 1800 fps.  Big foot....here I come.

The .458x2" will work in a lever action, read the review.
 
The 450 has been chambered in many, many bolt actions. (Montana lists it as a stock cartridge.)
 
Don't understand .444 comment.
 
The big bore bolt action world has so many things between the .358 and 458WM that I don't want to get into it.
 
However, I just answered my own question. Seems Marlin used this round as a starting point, and the lawyers made them change it.

Gentlemen,
 
Here is my $0.05 worth.  First it is a rimless case, second it is, for all intents & purposes, a straight-walled case.  Now with those two items in mind, if it didn't have a belt...how would you headspace the chambering for this cartridge?  It makes sense to have a belt so it can be headspaced properly!  Jay, your comments please!
 
Ol' John

I don't have any problem with the belt. But I think I'd rather make a .450 WSM. Now if I could get that to work through a Marlin 95 or a co-pilot, I'd die happy.

Quote from: HondoJohn6508It makes sense to have a belt so it can be headspaced properly!  /QUOTE][/size]

Absolutely John...no way to headspace on the mouth of the case like the .45 ACP or .30 Carbine.

As you guys know, the .45-70 was being chambered and sold through Navy Arms, at one point, in the Siamese Mauser action.  There are other bolt actions that can handle rimmed cartridges but the rim diameter of the Siamese Mauser cartridge is pretty close to the .45-70 rim.  Initially there were feeding problems but I believe they got them ironed out.

It's hard to remember every detail that long ago but I think that it (.458 x 2" American) was being pushed as a carbine type setup.  the 'brush gun' goes in phases and it was something for the writers and publishers to fasten upon.  My friend loved big old pumpkin slingers, like I do, and was really up for the lead bullet loads.

Another along the same lines, but not as powerful was the .401 Win SL, I knew several hog hunters and LEO's in the '50's and '60's who really liked that in the Winchester SL carbine, unfortunately, they stopped making ammo and the last disappeared off the shelves by the '70's.
I would like to find one, reloading them would be pretty easy now.
I like big lead things.
Don

What I meant to say was.....
 
As you go up in caliber, you get into the really big bruisers.  The .358 is a relatively mild round compared to the 375 H&H or the 416 Rigby.
 
For the bolt action shooter what can a person find that is a true big bore round without the big bore kick and punishing recoil?
 
Sure....you can load the 458 Winchester down to 45-70 pressures and velocities but if you want to buy 458 Winchester shells....good luck.
 
The 458x2" is strictly a handloading proposition right now.  Hey....a person could load this to about the same pressure and power as a hot loaded 45 Colt.
 
Then again....they could dial it up to be the baddest of the bad.
 
Interesting possibilities and yes...aside from the Siameese Mauser...the 45-70 is either a single shot or lever action round.  As far as the 444 Marlin goes....how many bolt action rifles have you seen chambered for it?  How many bolt action rifles are chambered for the 450 Marlin?

Well there is one more bolt action...someone brought it to my attention last year... it is the Gibbs modification for the Enfield. It is the first picture below.
 

The 2nd picture is a Siamese Mauser in .45-70 and the story with the picture can be found here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/bigboresiam/index.asp

I've been thinking about your big bore coment, and I have to agree, there isn't much for the non-mag bolt action big bore crowd.
 
Basically, it depends on where you graw the line. I know some people who shudder at anything above a .30 caliber, and we all know that Mr. Kieth considered a .375H&H a smallbore. I tend to draw the line at .375. However, you mentioned .358 so we'll start there, the only 3 I could really find that are hotter that the .358 and not magnums are the 35 Whelen, the 350 Rem mag ( I know it's a mag, but it seems to fit your envelope,) and the .356 Steyr. If you are willing to spend some money you can buy loaded Hawk cartridges, and they seem to be what your after.
Just my nickel
Ron

Big bore calibers have some very obvious limitations.

If 2,700 fps is the magic number....the velocity that seperates truly flat and usable trajectories from those that are many times referred to as "good timber rifles" or "Brush guns"....then you can well imagine the amount of recoil a .458 caliber round is going to generate at that speed.

The 460 Weatherby magnum moves a 500 gr round about that fast as it burns 120 grns of IMR 3031 or 4064.  Thats nuts and I doubt anyone can shoot that rifle accurate enough out to the limit of its effectivness.


Therefore.....anything that's not a shoulder breaking monster is....by definition...a brush gun.

With the advent of the Ultra magnums.....the trend is not going slower and bigger but rather lighter and faster.

I would love to see a 416x57 or a 375x08 round.  Who knows....maybe one already exists, but you can't find a rifle chambered for it.

Whoose to say that the 45-70 shouldn't be made into a rimless round and chambered in a model 70 Winchester?  Of course, you have to find a way to headspace it...but why not?

Again....after the 35 Whelen....it is bruiserville.

Make the 375 Winchester without a rim and increase the pressure to around 50,000.  What a nice brush buster that would be.