This is the "Data Only" part of the larger thread you can read here: http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18863 The "data plus comments" thread has lots of interesting and amplifying information. This thread was created so that there would be a place one didn't have to wade through ancillary comments to review "Just the facts, ma'am".

Paul

I am planning to do some rimfire "work" here as soon as the amount of daylight gets back to something 'useful'. My plan is to take 16 of the 18 .22 rifles I own and fire at least 5 rounds from each of them using 9 of the 12 types of .22 RF ammo I have in hand. (Minimum of 720 rounds.) For those types of ammo that I have a lot of, I may shoot more than 5 rounds. In preparing for that effort, I found some old data I had for 6 rifles with four types of ammo. I have more "old" data, but I haven't found all of that yet. Until I get that 'work' done, here's a graph of the old data I found.

Paul

The rifles I will be using are:

• Polish Trainer #1
• Polish Trainer #2

• Romanian Trainer #1
• Romanian Trainer #2

• SMLE Trainer #1
• SMLE Trainer #2

• Ruger 10/22 with Volquartsen 1:9 twist barrel

• Ruger 10/22 with standard 1:16 twist barrel



• BSA Model 12 Tilting Block

• Enfield Trainer (tilting block like Martini)

• Anschutz Model 54 Match

• Savage Model 1903

• Stevens Model 416 USGI Match

• "Teutonic" Single Shot Breechloader

• Krico

• Insert for Mauser K-98

[/list]
Some reference pictures. Some are of my rifles, some are from online images. All of the ammo pictures are off the internet.

The ammo I will be using:

• Aguila Sniper Sub Sonic

• Aguila Colibri

• Aguila Interceptor

• CCI "Standard Velocity"

• CCI "Mini-Mag 22 LR-HP"

• CCI "CB Short"

• Remington "Golden Bullet"

• Winchester "22 Long Rifle"

• Federal "Maximum Velocity HP #712" (Picture coming soon.)

Paul

Since this thread only had four posts in it, I'll post the range reports here to consolidate all of the data in one place.

Talk about 'making a rod for one's own back', OY!

I had great plans for shooting several rifles today because I was shooting in my backyard. You know what they say about 'best laid plans'. I'll spare you the gory details, but in the end, I only shot the Krico, and while I did shoot 8 kinds of ammo, I was only able to get MVs on 6 of them. Two of them; CCI CB Short, and Aguila Colibri, didn't register on the MagnetoSpeed (MS). (Some hassles with the MS are part of the plans that went awry as well as a magazine malfunction that is actually pretty significant. As a result, I had to load each bullet one at a time.) At any rate, here is the first installment on this endeavor which I hope gets easier.

The Krico didn't have a 'scope mounted on it, and the only "good" 'scope I have not mounted is has a 50mm objective and the rings I have that fit the Krico's dove-tailed receiver aren't high enough for the 50mm objective. So, I had to mount a Bushnell 3x9x40. It was fine for this exercise. I decided not to go out to the 37-yd max I can get in my yard, and just set the target at 25 yd; one of the standard ranges for .22 RF.

I used the Remington "Golden Bullet" to get the 'scope sighted in. Sighting in and then shooting 5 shots for MV and group. Therefore I have 9 MVs for that ammo, but the last 6 shots for group. I have set up an Excel spreadsheet to present the data in concise and organized form. Here's a screen-shot of the part of the Krico spreadsheet for the Remington "Golden Bullet" ammo.


If the above image is too large to fit your screen, hold the "Ctrl" (control) key down WHILE you tap the "-" (minus) key. This will shrink the image on your screen. If the picture is too small, hold the Ctrl key down and tap the "+" key. That will enlarge the image on  your screen. When you finish looking at this thread, you can go back to whatever level of "magnification" you like by using the appropriate keys to reduce or enlarge the image on your screen.

It's difficult to see the two lower shots that are "in the black", but you can see where they are in the graphic representation of the group. The spreadsheet is essentially a template, so I will explain a couple of the cells for this bullet, and the explanation applies for all the rest. (Im' not going to explain the obvious cells, but sometimes what's obvious to me isn't to someone else, so if you have a question, ASK!)

Cells B10 through B18 are the MVs in f/s for each of the rounds fired. As I said, the first three were for sighting in, the next 6 for group. The average MV was 1241.8 f/s. At the moment, I don't know what the advertised MV is, but 1242 ain't shabby.

Cells C4-C9, and D4-D9 are the pixel-level x and y (windage and elevation) coordinates for each bullet hole.

Cells H4 and I4 are the x and y coordinates of the point of aim (POA).
I needed to calculate the pixels per inch for each image, and that's what's going on in cells H5-H8 and cells I5 & I6. Cell I8 is the dimension of a pixel in inches. In this case one pixel is equal to 1.266 thousandths of an inch. So you can see how precise I can be in getting group sizes.

Cells C13-C18 and D13-D18 are the x and y coordinates of each shot relative to the POA in INCHES. (I needed the above numbers to covert from pixel units of measure to inches.) The corresponding cells in colums E and F are the values with the average removed. The 'centers' the group on the 0,0 x,y coordinate. (This simplifies some of the math associated with the statistics.)

Row 19 has the average values for each column of data above it. (Notice that the average values for windage and elevation are "0.00" in columns E & F. That's because the average has been removed, meaning the average is now 0.00.)

Row 20 is the standard deviation of the MV and the windage and elevation. This value allows me to predict the 95% Confidence intervals (CI) around windage and elevation which in turn allows me to calculate the 95% Confidence ellipse (CE) and its area. The 95% CE is the ellipse within which one can be confident that 95 out of the next 100 shots will land. The area of the CE is a measure of the precision of the ammo/rifle/shooter 'system'.

I'll skip over rows 21 and 22, but if you want to know any details about them, just ask.

The green highlighted cell in row 23 is the area of the CE in square inches. You can also see this value in the text box in the graphic representation of the group.

For those that like to see "max spreads", row 24 has the values for the MV, windage, and elevation.

Row 25 (Euclidean Max Spread) is the "classical" maximum spread that gunwriters (ptooey) have been presenting for a hundred years.

On the far right is a picture of the actual group, and to its left is the graphic representation of the group for clarity. In the actual group, the small squares are 0.2" and the large squares are 1". In the graphic representation, the squares are 1".

SO...

What most people are interested in is the average MV and the group size. The average MV is 1242 f/s and based on this sample of 9 shots, I could expect the muzzle velocities of at least 95 of the next 100 shots to be between 1190 f/s and 1293 f/s. Seems like a big spread (103 f/s) when the observed spread is only 71 f/s. That's because the sample size is small. With a small sample size, we can't be more CONFIDENT than this +/- 51.5 f/s.

The "max spread" of the group is 0.93". But the 95% CONFIDENCE interval for windage is +/- 0.57", and +/- 0.80" (3.20" up and down). The area of a circle (ellipse) that circumscribes our CONFIDENCE of where the next 95 out of 100 bullets will hit is 1.43 square inches. (You can also see that value in the graph.) So gunwriters (ptooey) would express the "accuracy" of this bullet in this rifle (with me shooting it) as 0.93". Since I don't like to fool MYSELF, I can express with confidence that 95% of the next 100 shots will most likely fall within an ellipse that has an area of 1.43 square inches. An ellipse whose windage axis is 1.14" inches wide by 1.6 inches high. Now recall that this is at TWENTYFIVE YARDS. So at 50 yards the axes would be twice as long, but the AREA would be FOUR TIMES larger.

OK - A high level of information 'density'. I'll give you a break and just post the images from the rest of the ammo I shot today.

Vertical max spread of only 0.18". That's good. 0.76 MoA vertically; 3.44 MoA horizontally.


Two "key-holes" out of 5 shots - #s 4&5.


Great MV at 1453 f/s. Good windage at only 0.30" (1.2 MoA), but elevation jumps to 1.03" (4.12 MoA).


Nothing particularly good in this group.


I LIKE this one!. Were it not for the one flier - not operator error - this would be a very good group, but it would still be 1.6 MoA.

The CCI-CB-Short with no MV data.

More when there is more.

Paul

Here's a graph of the velocities for easier comparison.


And here it is with 95% confidence bars. If the Confidence intervals overlap, there is no statistical difference between the average values.
This should "make sense" because the probability of a specific MV being from a specific bullet is inside the 95% CI for all of those four. Since that could occur within the overlap, one cannot expect to tell the which cartridge produced the shot.

So for example, the 95% CI of the Mini Mag overlaps the average ("expected value") for all except the SSS and Interceptor. Therefore, if you didn't know what bullet I "just shot", but you had the MV, you couldn't tell which one it was if the choice was between all four of them. However, if the choice was between the Winchester and the Federal, you COULD "bet" on which it was based on the MV and "expect" to be right more often than not.


Paul

PS - Here's a picture of the whole target:


Looking at this picture suggests that I could have posted "group" statistics for the CB. I didn't, because I don't have MV data. I suppose I'll calculate the stats on the group and post them. Tomorrow.

Or today:

Paul

Looking again at the graph of MVs with their confidence interval, the bullets worth having a second look at are those with the smallest standard deviations - The Winchester 36-grain HP, and the Aguila Interceptor. The Winchester had the most promising group size and the Interceptor had the highest average velocity by 200 to 300 f/s for the Remington and Federal respectively. Percentage-wise, that's an improvement of (1453-1242)/1242=9% over the Remington, and (1453-1158)/1158=25% over the Federal. I might as well do the Mini Mag: (1453-1188)/1188=22%. You can decide for yourselves if those are 'significant' improvements. For me, the added velocity of the Interceptor PLUS the windage standard deviation of 0.13 inches makes me want to see if I can't get the elevation standard deviation down.

Paul

The next rifle used was the Ruger 10/22 with the 1:9 twist Volquartsen barrel so I could shoot Aguila Sniper SubSonic ammo from it.

Cutting to the chase scene:
The first ammo was the Remington Golden Bullet:


Next, the CCI, Mini Mag:


Next, the Aguila Interceptor:


Next, the Federal Hi Power #712:


Next the Winchester 36-grain:


Finally, sort of, the Aguila SSS. I shot two groups of 5 each. The MagnetoSpeed only caught 1 velocity. Here's the first group:


Here's the second:


Here is a graph of the combined groups.


I tried the Aquila CBs and the CCI CB Shorts. No joy in shooting the Aguilas. Shot the CCIs, but no MVs. Here is the CB's group:


I'm bushed now, but I also shot my 10/22 with the "normal" 1:16 twist barrel with these same bullets. I'll post that data tomorrow and discuss all of them. Some interesting things happened.

Paul

You may have noticed that some of the cells are now highlighted: The standard deviation of the windage and elevation, and the area of the 95% CE. Those cells are automatically formatted when the contents of the cell meet certain criteria; when the SD of the windage or elevation is less than one caliber, and when the area of the 95% CE is less than 0.44 square inches.

I wanted to know when the SD in windage or elevation was equal to or less than 1 MoA - my personal standard of precision. (Not the 'law' but rather a 'goal'.) That means that THEORETICALLY, when stretched out to 100 yd, the windage or elevation of the group would be equal to or less than ~1 inch because the caliber (0.223") is approximately 1/4 of an inch and these groups were shot at 25 yd. Since 100 divided by 25 is 4, and 4 times 1/4 = 1, I set the 'notice' to show when the SD was less than a caliber.

In the case of the area of the 95% CE I had to make some arbitrary decisions. Your choices might differ. Since a common game animal that I would use a .22 RF rifle on is a wascally wabbit, and since I prefer to head-shoot them, I thought the criteria for the area of the 95% CE should be about equal to the cross-sectional area of a rabbit's head. I figured that for a circle of about 3 inches in diameter. Since 100 yd is essentially the max range I would use a .22 RF on a rabbit, I needed to figure out how small that circle needed to be at 25 yd; the distance at which I was shooting the paper targets.

One might think that since we multiplied the group size (or SD) by 4 to get the MoA figure, that is all we need to do to the area value of the 95% CE at 25 yd. Au contriare! The SD is a "linear" value (one dimensional); the 95% CE area is a two dimensional value - it has width and breadth, and it is expressed as SQUARE inches. Therefore, the threshold for 'notice' of "minute of a rabbit's head" has to be scaled accordingly. The Reader's Digest version is that the figure at 25 yd needs to be about 0.44 square inches. If you don't want to read how the math was done to get that figure, skip the next paragraph.

Since I somewhat arbitrarily (somewhat empirically as well) chose a 3" diameter circle as the "minute of rabbit's head" value, the radius of that circle is 1.5". The formula for the area of a circle is "pi times the radius squared" or pi*r^2. Since our radius is 1.5 inches, the area of a circle 3" in diameter equals:
pi * r^2
3.14 * 1.5^2
3.14 * 2.25
7.07 square inches. In other words; a circle with a diameter of 3 inches has an area of ~7.07 square inches. Here comes the 'tricky' part. Since the ratio of 25 to 100 is four AND since we have to SQUARE two dimensional parameters to get AREA, we have to divide our 100 yd area (7.07 in^2) by 4 SQUARED, or 16. 7.07 divided by 16 equals 0.44 SQUARE inches. Therefore, any 95% CE that has an area of 0.44 square inches or less at 25 yd, will THEORETICALLY have an area of 7.07 square inches or less at 100 yd, and we can EXPECT our rifle/ammo system to hit within that area 95 times out of a hundred.

I just got a call and have to conduct some business. I'll get back to this later.

Paul

Here is the data for the other 10/22 I have, with the standard 1:16-twist barrel. (As it turns out, I thought I only had one 1:9 twist barrel, when in fact I have three. This is another 1:9 twist barrel.)

The Remington Golden Bullet data:


The CCI Mini Mag data:


The Aguila Interceptor data:


The SSS data:


The Federal #712 data:


The Winchester 36-grain HP data:


The data from the "Unknown" manufacturer:


The group size data are interesting, but look at the actual targets from the SSS, and the Unknown ammo. Then look at the targets from the 1:9-twist barrel and specifically the targets from Mini Mag, Interceptor,  Federal, and SSS. Notice anything? In each of those groups the first bullet is significantly away from the other four. In ALL of those cases, that is the first shot of the group.

Normally, we 'blame' those shots on "cold barrel", or "clean barrel". That does not work here. The barrel was neither "cold" or "clean" for those shots. I scratched my head about that a little and then it dawned on me: Those are the shots in which the autoloading operation of the action did NOT chamber the round. I started "dropping" a SECOND time, turning it loose from as far rearward as I could. You can see that doing that reduced the "First shot" anomaly (but did not eliminate it), in the second 10/22. Some of those groups that exclude that first shot are very nice.

Another 'thing' I'm seeing, is that the variance in MV has almost ZERO to do with group size. In other words, even when the variance (SD) is high, the group can be small, and conversely, when the variance is low, the group can be large.

I would also add that I forgot to mention when I shot the CBs in the 1:9-twist gun that I could see the bullets about 5 yd before they hit the target. Here's the "wierd" thing: They were spiraling down-range. And I mean BIG spiral, like maybe 4". It looked weird to see it.

Let's compare (side by side) the values for each bullet type from the three rifles so far shot.

Remington Golden Bullet:
Krico - - - - -  1242 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1292 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1292 f/s

CCI Mini Mag:
Krico - - - - -  1188 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1207 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1232 f/s

Aguila SSS:
Krico - - - - -  846 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - N/A f/s
10/22-1:9 - N/A f/s

Agiula Interceptor:
Krico - - - - -  1453 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1443 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1499 f/s

Federal Hi Power #712:
Krico - - - - -  1158 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1181 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1249 f/s

Wincheser 36-grain HP:
Krico - - - - -  1218 f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1235 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1256 f/s

Unknown:
Krico - - - - -  N/A f/s
10/22-1:9 - - 1265 f/s
10/22-1:9 - 1346 f/s

Remingtons are exactly the same in the two 10/22s.
Krico seems a bit slower than the 10/22s except the Interceptor is faster in the Krico that the 1:9 10/22.
The Interceptor is clearly the fastest and in the 1:9 10/22 looks like if the "first shot" phenomenon were accounted for, might actually produce an acceptable group. Maybe.
Winchester groups look good, especially when the "First shot" is ignored.
Federal produces some good groups in the 10/22s again when "First shot" is ignored.
The "Unknown" ammo (might be Yellow Jacket, I used to have a brick of that), doesn't do too badly. Good velocity. Groups are mediocre at best.
Notice how the Mini Mag shoots "sideways" from all three rifles. I find that VERY interesting. It produces VERY small variations in elevation.

All for now. I haven't decide on what the next rifle(s) will be. Maybe the Anschutz with the competition stock.

Paul

Here are pictures of the whole, real targets:
Krico:


10/22 1:9 barrel:


10/22 1:16 twist barrel:


Paul

Two things that have emerged from this exercise so far is the "first shot" phenomenon with the 10/22s, (I'll come back to that wrt to the Krico), and the "horizontal" nature of the Mini Mag groups with all three rifles. To the Mini Mag point, here is a graph combining the three groups:

That is surprisingly consistently 'horizontal' in nature and clearly independent of the rifle from which it is shot. The 95% CE is almost exactly twice as wide as it is high - 1.196" x 0.588". (Rounding to a single decimal place - 1.2" x 0.6".) I find that very interesting! Why is that? More importantly, HOW is that? Furthermore, the vertical spread is TINY! I'm going to have to give this some thought.

With regard to the "first shot phenomenon" being a function of whether or not a round is loaded "by hand", or by the autoloading function of the action and it showing in both the 10/22s and not the Krico: That could be because every shot from the Krico was loaded like the rifle was a single shot. The magazine is boogered, and would not feed rounds. I had to load each cartridge one at a time. Therefore, while the rifle IS a semi-auto, and therefore the "first round phenomenon" should have shown up, it wasn't operating in semi-auto. I have other semi-autos to shoot, so we'll see if this is a 10/22 characteristic, or transcends all, or most, semi-autos.

Paul

The barrel lengths (bolt face to muzzle) of the 3 rifles so far shot are:
10/22 1:9 twist Volquartsen - 16 and 9/16ths inches,
10/22 1:9 twist E.R. Shaw - 18 inches,
Krico: 22 and 1/2 inches.

Paul

Hokay...

Because of the "first shot" phenomenon, and the "horizontal" nature of the Mini Mag groups with all three semi-auto rifles so far shot, I decided the next rifle should be a bolt action rifle. I chose the Anschutz target rifle. I'm very glad I did. :D:D:D:D:D Another THL member that live's here in The Valley - "knotman" - came over to visit, and we took the Anschutz out to shoot. We shot five shots each of each bullet. As a result, there will be 10 MV values recorded for each bullet type. However, since we are looking at group size, in order to keep the comparisons to "apples to apples" (or "pauls to pauls"), I'll present our groups separately.

WRT the two issues of first shot phenomenon and horizontal grouping of Mini Mags:
Both appear to be semi-auto action related. Neither knotman nor I produced horizontal groups with the Mini Mag. Neither did the rifle exhibit the first shot phenomenon with any of the ammo types. As far as I'm concerned, the correlation with semi-auto action is ALMOST 'resolved'. I will have to look at other semis and other bolt guns, but I will be VERY surprised if we see the 'anomalies' in any of the bolt guns.

The small, lightly colored lines, in the real target, are spaced at 0.2" - 5 to an inch.

The Remington Golden Bullet:


The CCI Mini Mag:


The Aguila Interceptor:


The Federal #712:


Winchester 36-grain HP:


I was very pleased with these groups. :D The Interceptor shot "fastest" AND shot a VERY small group. The bottom bullet hole in the Winchester group was "operator error". That could have been an even smaller group.

I didn't think the Anschutz would shoot the Aguila SSS without keyholing, but I was hoping to get MVs. No soap on either account. Look at the target for the Federal #712. You can see the only SSS I shot. It was sideways at 25 yd, and I got no MV, so no need to waste ammo.

There was a stiff breeze from the left, and I couldn't really get 'comfortable' at the table, so I am fairly certain this rifle is capable of better groups. After this exercise, I am going to shoot it again but at 50 yd.

Normally, I use the "unknown" bullets to make sure I am "on paper", and such was the case today. OY! I didn't even bother recording the "pattern" size, but notice the MVs. I THINK these might have been YellowJackets.


I'll post knotman's groups and stats next.

Paul

Here's the Anschutz's real, whole target:


Paul

Here are knotman's data:

Remington Golden Bullet:


CCI Mini Mag:


Aguila Interceptor:


Federal #712:


Winchester 36-gr HP:


Here are composites of knotman's and my groups:
Remington Golden Bullet:


CCI Mini Mag:


Aguila Interceptor:


Federal #712:


Winchester 36-gr HP:


Paul