I 'need' to get a load worked up for both the newly purchased Sauer 90 chambered in .338 Win Mag, and the Savage 110 for which I have the .338 Federal (.338-08) barrel. I've been doing my typical preliminary number crunching even though I have very precise loads for the Ruger M77 I have that is chambered in .338 Win Mag. I thought I'd start from scratch with the Sauer, and of course I need to start from scratch with the Savage.

For the moment, I simply want to memorialize the .338 caliber bullets I have in hand. I will go into the gory details in subsequent posts.

Barnes:
160 "X" #33878 - I have 16 of these left over from trying to get them to shoot straight in the Ruger.
175 "XFB" #33880 - ~150 on hand

Nosler:
180 Ballistic Tip #BT3395 - ~100
180 Accubond #57625 - ~100
200 Accubond #39595 - ~100
200 Ballistic Silver Tip #51200 - ~150
200 "Spitzer" #59186 - ~50
210 Partition #16337 - ~100

Hornady:
225 BTSP #3320 - Lead-tipped - ~100

"Generic" - Bulk purchase from Midway
225 BTSP - Pretty sure these are Hornadys - 100
250 Flat Based, Graphite Coated, Tight Hollow Point, I think these are the old "Fail Safe" "mono-metal" bullets that the cops and medical community screamed bloody murder about when they first came out. The medicos said, "This bullet was designed to kill", as if that was a BAD thing for a bullet! Idiots! Then they complained that they might cut themselves on the "fragments". - ~50

My two "go to" bullets for the Ruger are the Hornady 225 and the 210 Partition. Both shoot VERY straight from that rifle.

Of course the bullet that provides the best PAPER external ballistics isn't on the list: 225 Accubond. But that will be soon remedied as I ordered two boxes from Palmetto Armory.

Subsequent posts will have QuickLOAD output, and then range reports. I'm itching to shoot the Sauer!

Paul

Are you getting some daylight up there now. Or I guess I should say how many hours of daylight are you getting now?

It's getting 'good' with shooting light from about 0830 to 1830, so about 10 hours a day. Now the issue is temperature. It's hanging around freezing, and while I occasionally hunt in those temperatures, it's not often. I don't like to work up loads in temperatures that are more than about 20 degrees from what I generally hunt at - which is 45 to 55 Fahrenheit. We're right on the edge of that temperature boundary now.

Of more significance is the fact that I am 'elbow deep' in a furniture building project. I should be at a 'break point' in it in a few days. I plan to get to the range then.

Paul

You are catching up to me fast! About an extra hour at both ends here.another month and I bet you have more sunshine than I have.

The 160gn ttsx for the 338 federal will be interesting, should make for a good woodland rifle here in the UK.

Try as I did, I was never able to get it to shoot straight from my .338 WM.

What I would REALLY like for the .338-08 is a .338 sabot with an .323 (8mm) pocket. Light-for-caliber (LFC) bullets like the ANVB would be interesting, but it would also be interesting to use something like the 8mm 150s or 180s. Of course by the time you get to 180s, you might as well make an 8mm-08. Although... because they're made of slippery stuff, sabots 'slide' down barrels easier than gilding metal (bullet jacket material), and it takes less pressure to achieve the same MV. Put differently, the same pressure produces higher velocities. Also, sabots don't "lead" or "copper" foul the barrel. The BIG downside though is that I have never been able to get sabot'd bullets to shoot better than 2 minutes of an angle, and usually it was 3. That's a deal killer for me.

Paul

The furniture isn't going anywhere and what's a few degrees? You should go shoot. I have some 200gr Hornady SP I can send you.

Quote from: Hunterbug;143327The furniture isn't going anywhere and what's a few degrees? You should go shoot. I have some 200gr Hornady SP I can send you.

Thanks for the offer of the 200s, HB. I've got enough for the time being.

Paul

When I start working up loads using QuickLOAD, it starts me 'musing'.

There are 'things' about shooting that I don't like, and there are 'things' that seem to get bullets to shoot straighter. One of the things I don't like is metal-fouling of the bore, be it lead or 'copper'. One of the things that bullet manufacturers are coming around to to make bullets shoot straighter is groove diameter "driving bands" and "bore riding" body diameter. Cast bullet shooters have used the "driving band" and "bore riding" concept for a LONG time.

I was thinking about sabots again, and since I LIKE (on paper) the .338 caliber, 225 Accubond, I wuz thinkin' about what cartridge would I need to have to 'sabot' it. The first cartridge that entered my mind was the .348 Win. (I like that cartridge!) But the next thought was "That's only 0.010" larger in diameter which in turn means the sabot would only be 0.005" on each side. Can you see where I'm going? The "driving band" and "bore riding" concept came immediately to mind.

If a sabot for a .348 caliber bore (.348 groove, .340 bore) was made with a .338 pocket and walls only about 0.005" thick, I would have the sabot as the driving band, and the .338 bullet as the bore riding "body". A sabot with walls this thin would 1) have less 'impact' on the bullet as they separated in front of the muzzle, 2) cause quicker and easier separation which should disturb the bullet less, and 3) not foul the bore with anything worse than HDPE ('slippery' plastic).

There are of course some practical issues. (Ain't no free lunches served here. ) I think the biggest problem is GETTING the blasted sabots. Sure wish I had someone near at hand that could do "that" for me. Almost as big an issue is the fact that I don't have any rifles chambered for .348 Win, and frankly, I haven't seen a .348 caliber barrel for sale EVER! It would be easy to neck .338 Win Mag cases up to .348 caliber, and the case capacity would be perfect.

Nothing really to this musing except 'thoughts'.

Oh by the way: The Sauer chamber is essentially the same length as the Ruger chamber, so loads should be relatively similar as well. We'll see. I have 16 rounds loaded for the Ruger with 225 Hornadys. I'll start off in the Sauer with those and see how it likes them. If I get lucky, the two rifles will have the same loads. I've never been that lucky with two rifles chambered for the same cartridge before though.

Paul

I can't help but think that the 200 grain Ballistic tips will be the best bet for the 338-08 and the 200 grain Accubonds for the 338WM.

RJ

160's in the federal look to give nice 'woodland' performance where trajectory is not so important, horses for courses.

I thought it would be the 200s for the Win Mag too, RJ, but here are some graphs that show that the 225 is the best ballistic performer. What's strange, is that the 225 performs best ballistically in the 08 case too. BC matters when you're paper-whipping. However, paper-whipping takes on more relevance when all the bullets examined are the same design - like Accubond.

The first graph is trajectory from 0 to 400 yd. It doesn't really matter what the exact values are when comparing bullets. The lines will remain the same distance apart, they'll just move up and down the x-axis depending on the initial (muzzle) velocity. As you can see the 200 and 225 are nearly identical.


Here is the impact velocity from 100 to 400 yd. Here, AT 400, the only bullet that stays above the minimum threshold (1800 f/s), asserted by Nosler for "proper terminal performance", is the 225. All others 'fail'. All "pass" at 300 and less.


Here's impact energy from 0 to 400 yd. Notice how the 225 and 250 are essentially identical, and the 200 'falls off' in this category.


Since the 225 has a better trajectory than the 250 but has similar impact energies AND has better impact velocity, it "wins" the paper battle. Since they're all Accubonds, this is a valid 'apples-to-apples' comparison, and the results probably represent RELATIVE reality. The 210 Partition was thrown in the mix because it is one of the two bullets, (the other being the Hornady 225), that shoot the straightest from my Ruger. The Partition is for bears because 1) I want the "poke through" that always happens with a Partition, and 2) I don't shoot at bears at over 200 yds.

Paul

Yeah, Makes sense. I was looking at not having to buy ten different bullets tho. I can't remember what my BIL shoots in his two .338Wm's. (pre '64 M70 and a post '64 M70 Stainless)

Probably whatever is cheap.

Seems his uncle loaded a lot of partitions for  the pre '64. I know it killed a ton of elk. I'm not sold on the Partition or A Frame simply because I can't get them to shoot as accurately as I'd like. I've not tried them in anything bigger than .308 caliber, so they might work better in say .338 or .358 caliber rifles. I know they would be a waste in my 35 Whelen. ALL shots on game using Hornady 250 grain spire points have been pass throughs, no matter the range or what was hit on the way through.

The 200 grain Accubond would have less recoil if that's a factor. If it wasn't I'd be looking at the Accubond LR in 250 grain for the .338WM.

RJ

This probably a good place to reiterate that especially in heavy-recoiling cartridges like the .338 Win Mag, I do not set my goals for a particular muzzle velocity as long as the bullet(s) in question are capable of delivering at least 1500 ft-lbs to 300 yards AND the trajectory is less than 12" vertical TOTAL (above line-of-sight plus below LoS), over 300 yd.

All of the bullets considered in the .338 Win Mag, don't have a problem meeting those initial criteria, therefore, I can select a MV that is more comfortable to shoot AND have LOTS of pressure headroom to find the barrel timing node. The same cannot be said for the .338-08. That smaller case simply can't pack enough powder to 'reach out there' as far as the larger magnum case. Therefore, I have to run it up in pressure which leaves less room to move with respect to barrel timing.

Paul

The 338WM IMO with 250's doesn't recoil any different than my 35 Whelen with 250's.

I like your bullet drop requirements which is why it would be interesting to paper whip that in the 338WM.

RJ