Aguila SSS ammo "reloading"

Started by gitano, August 29, 2010, 11:04:03 AM

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gitano

While I am not really "reloading" these bullets or cartridges, I am modifying them considerably, and it kinda feels like reloading so I'm putting this thread in this site.

Some of you may recall that a few years back, I fell in love with the 60-grain SSS (Sniper Subsonic) .22 rimfire cartridge made by Aguila and primed by Eley. However, the LONG, heavy, bullet would not stabilize in ANY of my several .22 rifles. I moped around for a while until Volquartsen put their 1:9-twist 10/22 on sale for "only" $150 and bought one. Sadly it's in stainless steel, not blue chrome molybdenum, but nonetheless it makes that SSS shoot VERY straight.

One of the "things" that bothered me about the SSS not stabilizing in ANY of my rifles with the standard 1:16 twist rate was that other folks (like drinksgin) whose veracity about firearms has been well-established to me, were reporting that the SSS didn't key-hole from their rifles. :huh2: Something was amiss somewhere. Anyway it was those reliable reports that kept me after the bullet I wanted to shoot. (The SSS hits like the proverbial "ton of bricks".)

I've been thinking about that "instability" issue lately, and I think I might have come up with the explanation: I shoot most often at about sea level, and in temperatures rarely above 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Each of those conditions "thickens" the air. Denser air changes the stability equation (but not in my calculator unfortunately). Nonetheless, the denser the air the harder it is to gyroscopically stabilize a bullet.

So here's the scoop. As I said in another recent post, I have joined the RimFireCentral forum. There's a fellow there (goes by 'D Rock') selling a device  http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=26980 that reshapes .22 RF bullet noses, AND uniforms their diameter. As soon as I saw the device, I bought one to use on the SSS bullets. The device comes with four "pointers":

1) A Hollow Point,
2) A Hydroshok (center post HP),
3) A flat nose/wad cutter, and
4) A round nose uniformer.

I made a fifth type - the flat nose hollow point, and I intend to modify the Hydroshok pointer so that it has a more acute angle to the hollowing part of the point. I don't particularly care for the results it produces now, but I KNOW the Hydroshok point is a real thumper. It acts like a hollow point on impact, but because of the center post, it penetrates farther than a normal HP.

Here some pictures of the results I obtained.

 

My thought was that in uniforming the diameter, AND reshaping the nose, the bullet would HAVE to get shorter, thereby changing the stability specs (improving them). I put the device to work immediately, and it does in fact shorten the bullets. According to my twist rate calculator, the difference in length and diameter make a big difference in the theoretical stability factor. I paperwhipped each of the four modified bullets (the four you see in the images, not the round nose) as well as the unmodified one - which is a round nose.

The results of that exercise suggest that my guess was probably correct about the stability of the unmodified bullet varying with where one is when one shoots it. I'll post some screen shots of the tables, and if it ever stops raining I'll see what they actually do instead of what they do "theoretically". (We set a record for consecutive days of measurable rain this summer - 30. It stopped for 3 days, then started up again, and we're working on another 10 in a row. :angry:)

Tables to follow.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

TackyDriver

I hope things dry up before it gets too cold. Your sizer reminds me of one I've seen on Paco Kelly's forum: http://www.leverguns.com/store/acurzr.html
Can't wait to see the results.
It would be a shame to waste a perfectly good mistake by not learning from it.

gitano

Quote from: TackyDriver;107658I hope things dry up before it gets too cold. ME TOO! Your sizer reminds me of one I've seen on Paco Kelly's forum: http://www.leverguns.com/store/acurzr.html It's similar, but I think this one is easier to use and more precise.
Can't wait to see the results. Here ya go.

So, the skies cleared this afternoon and I was able to get to the range. The results were interesting.

Here are the 'ground rules':

Shot only at 25 yds with one exception that will be noted.
Shot only two rifles:
1) 10-22 with Volquartsen 1:9-twist barrel and 3-9x40 'scope fixed at 9x, unmodified 1972 factory trigger.
2) BSA Martini Model 12/15 with aperture rear and globe front sights. (Absolutely 'gorgeous' trigger.)
The point of aim will be included in all targets.
No chronograph data.
Winds light and variable.
Temperature 59 degrees Fahrenheit.

To start with, I shot one five-shot group with unmodified SSSs to set the "standard" out of the Ruger.

Here's what that group looked like:



It's 0.75" x 0.3". Strangely spread, but no called fliers.

Later in the session I shot this 10-shot group:



Again no called fliers, and not counting the three 'odd' ones, much the same horizontally-arced spread. This horizontal spreading was observed with some of the modified bullets and not others.

Here is the target for the HPs. There are two 5-shot groups. The lower right group is the first, and the smaller one was shot after adjusting the 'scope.



This is one of three targets you will see without the size of the 10-Ring noted. The 10-Ring is 2.0 cm or 0.787 inches wide.

Next, I shot the HydroShok-pointed bullets. First the one "smaller" group. I then shot the "Wadcutters" and came back and shot the second "group" - more like a pattern than a group. :(



I haven't got a clue what was going on here, but this 'ain't gonna work'. Each round was loaded single-shot. There's no way this point feeds semi-auto.

Next is the "Wadcutter" or flat nose.



Not terrible, but nothing to write home about either.

Next was the Wadcutter HP.



Essentially the same as the un-HP'd version.

Next, I shot shot the BSA. Not knowing where it was going to hit with these bullets, I shot on the set-up graph first. Here's the 5-shot group.



The group is the one at the bottom of the image. As I said, the POA is in the image. As you can see, there was a substantial drop. However, besides the first one out of the barrel, the rest made a VERY small group. I could not repeat on the roe deer target because I was out of HP'd SSSs. I tried to make more, but it didn't work well. I brought the bullet sizer along to the range with the thought that if I wanted to resize more bullets, I could. I brought a "C" clamp to use as a press. It did not work well enough for me to use the resulting bullets for this evaluation. A Lee hand-press would work, but I did not bring that along.

After adjusting the sights on the BSA, I shot the Wadcutters. (I didn't have any more Hydroshoks, and based on the results with the Ruger, it wold have been a waste of time anyway.) First I shot a group on the grid:



Then a group on the roe deer target.



In the group on the grid, you can see the horizontal spread after the first two shots hit the bull's eye. A similar spread on the roe deer. Since this is a different rifle, the odds are that this is "operator error". Could be... but there are many groups shot that don't exhibit this horizontal spread, so it's not a certainty that I was "pulling" the trigger.

Also, you have to look closely, but every one of the roe deer holes and one of the grid ones are key-holed. Surprising to me, as the "wadcutters" are the shortest bullets, but it was the BSA with a 1:16 twist, and who knows what environmental factor changes between shooting these two groups.

Next I wanted to shoot some non-subsonic bullets and see how "things" compared in both the Ruger and the BSA.

The ammo used was Federal. On the side of the box was:
".22 Long Rifle"
"High Vleocity"
" 36 grain"
"Copper-Plated"
"Hollow Point"
"550 Rounds"
"Bulk Packed"
The stated velocity was 1280 f/s.

First, the Ruger.



The first three shots were great, but the other two were not called fliers. If you want to call it "spread",  it was vertical.

Here's the BSA's group with the same bullets:



This time, if you want to call this group "spread", the spread is horizontal, and this is with the rifle with the best trigger, so I'm not inclined to attribute the "spread" to 'operator error'.

Finally, to put "bookends" on the group shooting, I shot a last 5-shot group from the Ruger using un-modified bullets. Here's that group:



No "spread" in that group. I was pretty pleased with that, and decided to move the target frame out to 50 yards and see what I could do. Here's what I did:



I like that! And yes, both the 25 yd and 50 yd are 5-shot groups.

So here are my conclusions - yours may differ.

1) The Hydroshok point is "out". Maybe a modified angle to the HP will help, or a deeper seat of the pointer. Still, feeding singly is a pain in the butt. I don' think this pointer will get used much.

2) The HPs seem to do the best of the modified bullets precision-wise.

3) The "wadcutters" are OK, but no "great shakes" precision-wise. Their value may lie solely with how hard they hit. That will have to be determined on game.  The same applies to the WCHP.

4) The unmodified bullets shoot very well from the 1:9-twist barrel. It's difficult to justify the $95 price tag for the resizer for these bullets. A small justification may surface if the HPs or wadcutters "whack" small game without simply poking on through.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Paul,

        The BSA 12/15 will probably shoot much better with std velocity ammunition of normal target weight as that's what the barrel was designed to shoot.
Go Get them Floyd!

LvrLover

A 3/4 inch group at 50 yards with a factory trigger is plenty good for anything I would ever shoot. I have shot very few squirrels or rabbits that far away.
"Live free or die: death is not the worst of evils." General John Stark

gitano

I doubt if I can shoot "much better" than the BSA HV group on the roe deer, (not counting the far right hole), but I agree about it doing better with match bullets. I was just making sure the comparisons were "apples to apples".

I also agree with you, LvrLover, regarding squirrels. But there are a couple of qualifiers.

First and foremost, one HAS to have a fast-twist barrel to shoot these bullets with any reasonable level of precision, and Volquartsen is VERY proud of their barrels. I got this one "on sale" for $150 +S&H.
Second, I didn't get interested in this bullet for shooting squirrels. There are several good .22 RF "squirrel rounds" out there that would do just fine without having to go through all the rigamarole this round requires.
Third, this round is designed to be used sub-sonic AND it's a HEAVY for caliber bullet. That means doping the trajectory beyond 35 yds gets dicey for small targets like squirrels.

So... I want this cartridge mostly for shooting "big" stuff like rabbits, hares, lynx's, foxes and coyotes at ranges like 50 yds. I'd love to be able to hunt some of the rabbit warrens that the Aussies are showing us pictures of. I'd be inclined to try to hit them in the head at 100 yds. Further fitted with a sound moderator, I could probably get away with a couple of range-doping shots before they got too wise to what was up. :)

I'm gonna try to get some chronograph data later today. I can do that from my porch even if it rains - which it is supposed to do. :(

For all the "extras" this bullet requires, I still like it. It just hits like a hammer while being almost "quiet as a mouse".

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

:oI have misfiled the targets I shot with the SSS, however I likely shot at 25yds, usually start there with an unknown, firearms were an old Mossberg selfloader, a Ruger Mk. II and a Win. 67 ss.
The Massberg gave a 3-4" pattern, not group, more or less around the target, the handgun gave about 3" pretty well centered and the 67 did about 1", but 5" to the right and 1" low, none showed a keyhole, the temperature was very likely more than 60', probably quite a bit more as we have more 90's than 50's.
The handgun would do with them for me as the group size is about what I can do off hand with a handgun, the Mossberg is a waste of time, the 67 would be useful, but I have been shooting it without having to adjust the ancient Weaver scope for about 50 years and do not plan to change it now.
I have thought of trying a subcaliber adapter in my .223  Handi which is the late model with a 1/9 twist, that may be my next project, even the earlier Handis were 1/12, so they may be a good prospect.
Stay tuned!
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

#7
Here's the chrongraph data. Air temp was 54 degree Fahrenheit.



Looks like the SSS wasn't designed for a 29" barrel. The coefficients of variations are better, (I'm sure due to being a single shot action), but the MVs are slower on average in the BSA by 40 and 23 f/s for the SSS and Federal respectively.

Don,

I was thinking it might be a good "pig cartridge" for those close shots of a bayed pig. From a pistol at 10 feet or so, I'm sure the accuracy, (the right word in this case), would be fine and tumbling wouldn't matter. It'd be a "club" at that range.

In fact, from my 1:9-twist barrel, I'm pretty sure I'd shoot a black bear in the ear from a tree stand overlooking bait, and not have any concern about a wounded bear running off.

Paul

PS... Note that the Federal ammo was 100 f/s slower than advertised. Whoodathunkit.
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

I ain't NEVER tried factory ammo, even in the same length barrel, that closely matched the claims, always slower.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

LvrLover

I don't know if this is the case here or not but I read somewhere that for any given round there is a point of maximum velocity in regards to barrel length. The point at where the friction from the contact between the barrel and projectile starts to slow it down. Perhaps in these loads it comes somewhere between 16.5" and 29". Both are already slowing at 29", but perhaps they haven't hit their peak at 16.5". I am in no way defending the published claims of the ammo makers, just offering another angle.
"Live free or die: death is not the worst of evils." General John Stark

gitano

The data would certainly strongly suggest that for the SSS, and at least 'suggest' it for the Federal too. However, the difference in the "published" MV and the actual MV for the Federal is 100 f/s (1280 vs 1180). The difference in the Federal data for the Ruger and the BSA was only 17 f/s (40 vs 23). Therefore, the Federal is actually doing better in the BSA than it did in the Ruger with the SSS.

The BSA is an old rifle. I'm pretty sure NOBODY has made an over-the-counter .22 RF with a barrel longer than 24" for a long time. And certainly long before both of these bullets/cartridges were developed. Therefore I am fairly comfortable in assuming that both cartridges were "optimized" for barrels no longer than 24", and maybe even no longer than 20".

I need to "whack" some things with the HPd and flat-nosed SSS to see if they actually hit harder than the unmodified SSS. I would be astounded if they didn't, but until I see the actual results I will withhold abandoning the resizer for the SSS. It still has application for HPing and uniforming the diameter of non-subsonic, cheap, .22 ammo.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

I saw somewhere that the powder in a .22 LR is supposed to be consumed in 16".
The last long barrel .22s in volume production that I know of was the Win. 67-68 series, made from the early '30s to about '60-'65, they had 27" barrels, I have had 2 and they are shooters.
Larry Potterfield bought a bunch and gave them to his employees to customize,
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

drinksgin (deceased)

The sub caliber adapter came today, .223/.22rf.
Now to try some in my handi rifle, .223, with 1/9" twist.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

gitano

This seems like a very cool 'adapter'! I am looking forward to the results of your first shooting. Are you gonna shoot some SSSs?

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

drinksgin (deceased)

Yes, I have some left, I plan to chrony it with the adapter  in the Handi and in the 67, then try the Handi for tumbling and group size at 25 yds with the SSS and try some very old Federal bulk HS and some new Federal bulk HS both for group and velocity.
NRA life, TSRA life, SAF life, GOA, CCRKBA, DEF -CON

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