A hard lesson to learn....

Started by 22hornet, August 01, 2010, 01:58:41 AM

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22hornet

I don't have all the details. I understand that the police are still investigating the incident....
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/deer-hunter-shot-dead-by-friend-after-group-became-separated-in-northeast-victoria/story-e6frg6nf-1225896978242

Last week a young hunter was accidently shot and killed while out hunting with some mates. Now a hunter being shot and killed is almost unheard of here in OZ.
A spokesman stated that the young man was not wearing an article of blaze orange clothing, but his mates were. It is not complusary to wear blaze orange in Victoria, the state where the incident occurred, but it is here in New South Wales when hunting on public land.
From my perspective, I had never worn any blaze orange before I got my R licence. Now I wear a blaze orange hat at all time when hunting, even on private land. As do all my hunting mates.
I know there are times when the blaze orange will not be seen, but really, for the sake of wearing an orange hat and most hunters will wear a hat anyway, why take the risk?

Please hunt safely!
"Belief:" faith in something taught, as opposed to "knowledge:" which is awareness borne of experience.

Fieldmor77

That young fella getting shot was a real tragedy, if his death leads to mandatory wearing of some form of orange blaze Australia wide then it would not have been in vain, my thoughts go out to his family and the poor bloke who shot him.

recoil junky

A real tragedy.

 Here in Colorado we don't  have to wear orange except during the big game rifle seasons. 400 square inches on the upper torso plus a hat that has orange visible from 360*. Even with having to wear much that, we get at least two people killed every year during the rifle seasons.

RJ
When you go afield, take the kids and please......................................wear your seatbelts.
Northwest Colorado.............Where the wapiti roam and deer and antelope run amuck. :undecided:  
Proud father of a soldier medic in The 82nd Airborne 325th AIR White Falcons :army:

gitano

Let me start by saying:

1) Blaze orange saves lives.
2) Personal Flotation Devices - PFDs or "life jackets" - save lives.
2) Seatbelts save lives.

That said, I am adamantly OPPOSED to a mandatory blaze orange law and a mandatory seatbelt law and a mandatory life vest law.

When I get in my car I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt. I ALWAYS wear a PFD when I am on the water. I wear blaze orange when I am afraid of my safety in the woods and when I am legally obligated to, and I lost a very dear friend to a "hunting" accident.

There are two key points I would make:

1) There is a world of difference between wearing seatbelts and PFDs, and wearing blaze orange when hunting.
2) When you ASK THE GOVERNMENT to make a law that SUPPOSEDLY MAKES people be responsible, you give up freedom. Each "little" freedom ASKED TO BE TAKEN AWAY, diminished ALL freedom and slowly BUT SURELY leads to the government believing that it has ALL THE ANSWERS to your problems, and CAN LEGISLATE RESPONSIBILITY. That condition is know by a very specific name = Socialism.

With respect to "1": PFDs and seatbelts PERFORM A FUNCTION that MINIMIZES the HARM to me when someone else behaves irresponsibly. Blaze orange (BO) does nothing to minimize the harm done to me when someone else behaves irresponsibly.

One might argue that what BO "does" is lower the risk of someone else behaving irresponsibly. That's true. However, "lowering the risk", is not "mitigating the HARM". If some drunk son-of-a-bachelor - say Ted Kennedy - crashes his car into me, IN SPITE OF THE LAWS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING, IN SPITE OF MY HORN HONKING AND FLASHING LIGHTS (all akin to the "warning" of wearing blaze orange), my seatbelt WILL mitigate the harm done to me by Ted Kennedy. If my boat strikes an unchartered rock or gets swamped by a rogue wave, the PFD will mitigate the harm done to me. If some Equus assinus shoots at me because he has failed to make sure of his target before firing, that blaze orange is going to do NOTHING to mitigate the harm done to me. The PROPER mitigation of that risk is "hunters" being self-disciplined enough to   MAKE SURE OF THEIR TARGET BEFORE THEY SHOOT!

I AWAYS wear a PFD on the water. I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt when in a car. I wear blaze orange when I am concerned about the maturity of the hunters where I am hunting or when required to by law. AND... I FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL EVERY ATTEMPT TO MAKE A LAW THAT MAKES IT AGAINST THE LAW NOT TO WEAR SEATBELTS, PFDs, AND BLAZE ORANGE.

So... Will mandatory blaze orange "save lives"? "Yes". BUT... Only for the short-sighted. In the long run, the sum of the "little" freedoms lost will lead to thousands of lives lost.

The frog is boiling.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

buffalo bob

i have to agree that BO does nothing to save lives.  i was walking out of the timber from my trree stand many years ago.  i must have flushed a deer out in front of me.  because a total war broke out and i was behind that deer.  a ditch saved my life not the BO i was wearing.  it may help locate bodies. and it has become very easy for the governmewnt to regulate every day life.  seat belts protect only you.  a motorcycle helmet protects only your head, leaving your neck to absorb the trauma.  but a person can drive down the road eating a hamburger and talking on the phone, endangering everyone else on the road, because it is politically acceptable.

noel

and to add to Pauls rant,the government shoves statistics in our face saying how seatbelts save so many lives.truth of the matter is,you are fined for not wearing a seatbelt and unless the officer was there when you got out of your vehicle he has no way of knowing.nobody wants to pay a fine so of course the seatbelt was in use.the numbers are inaccurate!and I don't wear my pfd because it's uncomfortable to fish. I sit on it and a seat cushion when I operate my boat too!
Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it!
member;National Fiirearms Assocciation
Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
gun owners of Canada
North American Hunting Club

22hornet

This event is an unfortunate tragedy. Would the wearing of blaze saved his life? Maybe. Did the shooter properly identify his target before firing the shot? No! As my dad used to say. "You can't call the bullet back!"

Education can only go so far. Its a mixture of that education, our maturity and our life experiances that we take into the field that makes all the difference.
I like the "education" course for the R licence. Not everyone has the experiance of the people here to fall back on. The course and testing involved at least provides for a basic minimum standard in which to follow.
I know of too many hunters who rely upon "internet advice" to make up for that lack of experiance. And that advice is dolled out by people with as much experiance as the keyboard will allow. (And I do not mean you good folks at THL.)
I don't agree with the mandatory wearing of blaze orange but it is a good advice to follow.
There is only so much that we can do to make everything safer. I mean, I doubt that we are going to shoot ourselves. It's the other bloke, the unknown one, that will fire the shot. If mandatory education will limit the chances of that hunter making a mistake and killing someone, then I am all for that education.
"Belief:" faith in something taught, as opposed to "knowledge:" which is awareness borne of experience.

Paul Hoskins

I'm with Paul on this one. It's a tragedy any time a hunter is killed by another hunter but no more so than being killed by a stupid driver on a cell phone. i would cipher that around 90% of the laws on the books have nothing to do with what's right or wrong but about politics & money. A lot of laws are plain stupid, made by equally stupid politicians at every level of government.  .....Paul H

Daryl (deceased)

I agree with Paul on all points made.  I hate the loss of freedom and choice.
 
As a side note, Arizona does not require blaze orange for anything.  They do require PFD's and seatbelts.
 
I can only think of two hunting "accidents" in this state in my lifetime, and both happened within a week or so of each other.  One involved an LEO "accidentally" shooting another turkey hunter.  The other involved a guy who'd just completed a hunter safety course, and he also shot another turkey hunter.
 
I've lived here all of my life, and hunting related deaths are extemely rare here.  I don't usually wear orange, but like Paul, I do when I'm concerned about my safety, and when in states/areas where it's required by law.
 
Daryl
A government that abrogates any of the Bill of Rights, with or without majoritarian approval, forever acts illegitimately, becomes tyrannical, and loses the moral right to govern-Jeffrey Snyder
 

RIP Linden33

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