Project BSA P-14 rebuild-Update- new barrel

Started by Brithunter, April 30, 2010, 02:28:24 AM

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Brithunter

Scroll down for photos of new barrel fitted

OK although this was a collectable it's now a rebuild project and this is what I have to work with:-
 

For those who have seen the photos of the rifle whole yes I have replaced the pitted P-H 6E aperture sight with another that I found on e-bay
 

 

BSA "Sanitised" the action removing the Military marks and who actually made the action. The magazine box, floor plate and mag follower are of Eddystone manufacture bearign the "E" stamp the trigger and sear appear to be Winchester. The original serial number is under the bolt handle as is 194091 so perhaps assuming it matches the action it's an Eddystone action? I doubt we will ever know for sure.
 
 

BSA did all the hard work we just have to repair the years of neglect it has suffered :( . It will require careful polishing to reduce the rust pitting before it can be re-finished but there we have a small problem as the safey cannot be removed as the screw is rusted solid. I have tried warming it but to no avail it will require careful drilling out which of course means sourcing a replacement screw. The safety does work, I thought it didn't but it turns out it was that rubbishy stock and it was fouling the safety thumb lever :Banghead: , that wlll teach me to look more closely :shy: .
 
Now we come to finding a new barrel for it :eek: the easiest way will probably be for a 7.62x51 take off target barrel that I will have to try and turn down to a more sporting profile. It could be left as a 7.62mm or reamed out to say 300 Win Mag as after all the bolt face is a compatable size being a .303 originally :biggthumpup: . As a variation has to be obtained anyway to get anything other than a .303 barrel fitted it should not really present a problem. I already have dies and cases for the 300 Win Mag from when I had the Ruger No1B may years ago. However as a Win mag it would really require a different stock than the sporterised P-H one I was thinking of using as they don't handle the recoil that well:-
 

In a lighter calibre it would be fine it of course requires a new pad to be fitted properly and not just slapped on as this one was. It was on it when I brought it a long time ago.
 
We will be making enquiries as to the prices of new barrels and having it fitted which requires proof of course. Well it seems it will remain a .303 as John Knibbs says he has a few new in the white barresl for these and that will require no variation so it's go to be the way to go.
Go Get them Floyd!

sakorick

I tip my cap to you BH. Restoring a piece like that will bring you joy and pride forever. A noble cause with a happy ending I'm sure! My mother used to say......when there is a will there is a way. I believe it was an old Norwegian axiom. Regards, Rick.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

Brithunter

Hi Rick,

      Well this afternoon I drove up the Yorkshire to see Steve Kershaw who will be fitting the barrel. Whilst there we used a small MAP type torch to heat that stubborn screw and the safety can now be dismantled so a proper professional bluing is on the cards now. Tuesday I will speaking to Mr Knibbs again to arrange for the barrel to go to Steve for fitting. Monday is a Bank Holiday (Public Holiday).

      The only thing I am worried about is the cost as until we see the barrel we will not know how much work is required to fit it. At this point we don't know if they are threaded and chambered and Mr  Knibbs cannot recall if the barrel has a foresight ramp on it or not. Now if there is no foresight ramp I have a couple of BSA ones here so that's not a real problem. It will be about a month I guess before it will be done but that will depend on how quickly they can locate the barrel in the storage warehouse and get it sent to Steve and this is assuming that the barrel is clean and rust free especially in the bore.

      If it should turn out to be no good after some 50 years or so in storage then I will get a good used 7.62x51 barrel off Chris so we have options :greentongue: .

      Now I have to locate and acquire Go & No-Go guages for the 303 as Steve does not have any. He usually deals with modern rimless chamberings and things like the PPC, BR and some of the super varmint cartridges as well as the run of the mill stuff like .308 and .243 Winchester and not old fashioned rimmed ones like the 303 British :shy: ..
Go Get them Floyd!

Paul Hoskins

Why bother buying a headspace gauge? The 303 is a rimmed cartridge. As long as the bolt closes on the rim, you don't need a headspace gauge.   .......Paul H

Brithunter

Quote from: Paul Hoskins;106080Why bother buying a headspace gauge? The 303 is a rimmed cartridge. As long as the bolt closes on the rim, you don't need a headspace gauge. .......Paul H

Paul while your no doubt correct the problem is due to the dealer who has the barrel being awkward (due no doubt to the fact that he is a Custodian of the Birmingham Proof House) is insisting that the barrel go to an RFD (Registered Firearms Dealer) he won't sell it direct to me. Now as he won't sell it to me the gunsmith is caught by the law as to offer for sale a firearm that is not proofed means a minimum £1000 ($1500 US) fine per barrel. So by fitting the barrel and handing it back to me he would be breaking the law. If I could buy the barrel direct then until I decided to sell it the rifle would not require re-proofing :greentongue: .

When the rifle goes to the Birmingham Proof House assuming they do the inspection correctly the headspace will be checked with guages and if it's out they can refuse to proof or fail it which means more hassle and more expense. So I will be ordering a set of Oakie Button Go and No-Go guages which will cost $51:50 US shipped.

If it were not for the very high cost of re-barreling here in the UK I would have really liked to make this into a different calibre and a couple that I gave fleeting consideration too were the .220 Swift and the 5.6x57RWS. But once one commits to such work here well you can kiss at least $750 US goodbye :( .

More thought will have to be given to the re-barreling lark as I will need to think about my 25-06 before too long as the bore is heat cracked/crazed for 9" from the breech already which might explain why I am having trouble getting the grouping I would like and why I am getting inconsistancies showing up :( .

Logically it would be cheaper to scrap the rifle and buy a new one :eek: unless I can find a new P-H barrel or someone who offers a similar profile as to have one made to fit will cost between £500-£800 ($750-1200 US). I suppose I could retire it to the collection and get a new rifle for my stalking? :undecided: .

Quoteassuming they do the inspection correctly
I say this as there is a lot of suspicion that this is not done as laid down and it's just a money making venture. I know that it can be skimped as I had t take a revolver to be proofed as it had to proof marks on it when i went to collet it ( Colt Official Police) and they only fired one round insted of the six that should have been done. They also never cleaned it afterwards so they never inspected it and it took such a short time there was no time to inspect it. It's racket nothing more and that's not what was intended :frown .
Go Get them Floyd!

Paul Hoskins

Kevin, I couldn't put up with what you guy's have to tolerate when it comes to firearms & related things. I would probably wind up in prison but I would take a few politicians out before I went. It's getting worse here in the USA all the time with the tyrants that are running our govermnent now. It'll only get worse till we get rid of all of them or at least the worst ones. There will always be those that know what's best for us. .......Paul H

Brithunter

Well I got a phone call from the gunsmith Friday evening to say the barrel is fitted. It seems it was in a finished state, threaded, chambered, fore sight fitted and Blued :eek: . I thought they were new in the white not finished totally.

We have to check the headspace but he fitted the barrel and it had indexed just about spot on with the fore sight the tiniest bit off true vertical. I bought a set of Button guages to check the headspace and we will also check feeding etc with a selection of different .303 ammunition. It will be next week before I can drive up to see it and hopefully collect it if the headpsace passes. If not we have to beg, borrow or steal a .303 chamber reamer :shy: .
Go Get them Floyd!

22hornet

If you are going to all this trouble with the re-barrel I'm sure you could find a nicer looking stock than the x-mil one pictured above,
I think it was RJ that showed off a nice M17 in 30-06 with a good looking stock.
Have a look at the Boyds(?) website for a new timber stock.
"Belief:" faith in something taught, as opposed to "knowledge:" which is awareness borne of experience.

Brithunter

Thanks for the suggestion but I have yet to see a Boyds stock that looks right especially for a British classic sporting rifle :( .

Plus it's a moot point now as it would appear I have found an Original BSA Model D stock that needs a little TLC. I will know more Wednesday :) . It will probably require glass bedding, or even the inletting opened up slightly, we will see how the action fits once I get my grubby little Mitts on it. I will also most likely drilling through the stock to glue in a hard wood dowel above the trigger as there is a crack in the web of the stock between the magazine well and the trigger slot. So I will see what hard wood doweling I can get locally. Probably buy some 10mm and turn a bit down to a suitable diameter and put some little grooves in it for the glue to hold and grip. BSA did such a thing on their Majestics and Monarchs so it won't look out of place.

Meanwhile I will hunt through the steel stock we have lating arund and see what we have that I can have a go at making a replacement bolt handle out of. I will also now need to find a good cold blue to use on the action as now it's not going to be re-blued professionally as the barrel is like new so it seems a shame to strip it off. I will have to carefully polish the action and re-blue it somehow.

Hmmm perhaps I should enquire about "Metalblak"  it's a blacking solution that you can use at home but unlike cold blue is suitable for entire guns or so they claim.
Go Get them Floyd!

Brithunter

Hi All,

Well I picked it up and the bluing is not perfect as is has some rust spots on it. The barrel was already proofed and we wondered why but as it's proofed I don't need to do it again :biggthumpup: the view mark is from 1954:-
 

 

 
Now I checked the bore and it's nice and tight:-
 

The bore riding portion of the cast bullet measured 0.302" :biggthumpup: . Not only that I noticed some marking at the muzzle:-
 

Turns out it's been Ball Burnished, probably why it was taken off? :confused: when I cleaned it at home the patches came out clean :smiley: Oh the headspace is a might tight the bolt sans extractor and firing pin will just about close on the Go Guage however as both RP and Winchester brass measures 0.057" & 0.058" we will see how it goes if it cause problems then we shall have to re-consider it.

Now all I need is that replacment stock :Banghead: and i am still waiting to here about it. Seems he cannot find/recall where he has put it :stare: .
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

Cool!
 
Good luck at the range!
 
Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

Well I test fired it this afternoon out back with some cast bullet loads and it shows promise :biggthumpup: just a few I loaded up soem years ago that i had on hand.

The chamber is good and the cases come out nicely formed with a neat fairly sharp shoulder. Will take a couple of photos of them tomorrow as hopefully it won't be raining then :greentongue: . The headsapce will nead to be eased as it's just too tight and I have already spoken to the smith on the phone. Looking at the P-14 and the way it's breeched all it in fact needs is a few thou off the breechface or a few thou off the bolt face. Either is an option and both are fairly easy it seems and we are talking less than 0.005" here. I might see if I can lapp the bolt lugs and get a bit more contact on the RHS one.

On the field I set the aperture sight so it hits an A4 sheet of paper at 70 yards so at least when I visit the range it will be in the ball park :smiley: . Oh from standign at 25 yards it put three through one elongated hole :) . Now I need to make up some loads and I am not sure what to use right at the moment.

Decisions ........................... decisions :greentongue: .

If I can find the rest of my cast bullets I may see what can be down with them and keep this new shiney barrel just for them still need to check the groove size and find out what it is. Five groove barrels are not the easiest to measure though :Banghead: .
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

QuoteFive groove barrels are not the easiest to measure though
And neither are 3-bladed adjustable reamers, or five-fluted mill heads, or... anything round that has an odd number of "blades". :(
 
It occurs to me that if you can get a good groove depth, (probably by slugging the bore or at least the muzzle), all you have to do is measure from land to groove and add that groove depth.
 
Good news on the shooting!
 
Paul[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Be nicer than necessary.

Brithunter

#13
Oh well it would seem that the bore diameter is 0.301" with a groove diameter of 0.315" hence the slight leading found in the bore. Am considering options now as which way to go:-
 
1) Forget cast and use jacketed
 
2) Use 0.308" cast bullets and Paper Patch them
 
3) Get a custom mould
 
4) Buy a 32-40 mould and size down to 0.316"
 
5) Find an old 8mm Mauser Mould for the original 0.318" bore
 
I pounded a soft cast 0.358" bullet with a hammer then rolled on a surface table with a flat plate of steel to reduce it's diameter but whne I hammered it into the oiled bore at the muzzle the slub spread out so I only got a form of the first 0.320" of the bore to measure.

Edit:- here are the cases from the new chamber:-


The two on the left are from the new barrel the middle one is just fired the left one has been resized after firing the one on the right is a once fired PMP from some 150 Grn Soft Point I acquired years ago and I cannot recall which rifle it as fired in :cry: . Notice the short sharp shoulder of the new chamber.
Go Get them Floyd!

gitano

#14
Quote5) Find an old 8mm Mauser Mould for the original 0.318" bore
Is the first thing I would do. Lee has moulds for .318".
 
QuoteI only got a form of the first 0.320" of the bore to measure
At least it's the most important .320" of the barrel. It's more than a caliber, so I'd guess it's fairly representative unless you have some reason to believe otherwise.

I use essentially the same process, but when the slub spreads out I use a wooden dowel and knock it the rest of the way in. For future reference, if England still allows the use of lead weights in fishing, a 3/8ths oz "egg" sinker is an excellent billet for slugging 8mm-ish bores. I can buy a bag of 6 for less than a dollar.

Paul

PS - Oh yeah - strangest thing... I can use an 8mm cast bullet to slug an 8mm or smaller bore. Whodathunkit?

Be nicer than necessary.

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