It "bothers" me when "gun" manufacturers (that includes everything associated with guns) name things stupidly - meaning exaggerate for marketing effect (AKA greed).
 
I recently purchased a Model 1915 Stevens Favorite in "32 Long". Supposedly, this has a groove diameter of 0.312" or 0.313". To start right off, that ain't .32 caliber! I doesn't even 'round up' to .32 caliber. It's just a lie pure and simple. But... I can grumble a bit, grit my teeth, and "live with it". However, when I slugged the bore, I found the actual bore dimensions to be 0.294" to 0.296" and the groove dimensions to be 0.304" to 0.306". Now that's just plain "stupid". I pretty quickly get "fed up" with a cartridge that is basically wrapped in deception. However, I am loathe to modify this barrel, so I started looking for "alternatives".
 
Based on what folks, with more experience with the Stevens Favorite action than I, said, the first thing I did was set a pressure limit of 20,000 PSI, (30% less than the 26,000 PSI of a High Velocity .22 Long Rifle with which the Favorites are factory chambered.). I am POSITIVE this 20K PSI pressure ceiling represents no risk of harming the Favorite action. Then I started looking for bullets, cases, and barrels. The 20k PSI pressure limit cramps things pretty quick. However, getting "my mind right" that this rifle was designed as a 'plinker', and that I intend to keep it as designed - in principle anyway - I was able to find a few 'possibilites'. That .32 caliber 'thing' (really .312" :angry: ) kept sticking in my craw though. Then a big lightbulb went on over my head.
 
I have many 8mm Mauser take-off barrels that are IN FACT, GENUINE .32 caliber! AND... Turning them into Favorite barrels will be "childs play'. YEE HAA! (I've been putting off gettng a $150 indexing head for my mill because I didn't have a reason to get one."Octagoning" these barrels is reason enough!) The shank of my "32 Long" Favorite barrel is 0.666" - the "half octagon" portion is 0.750" - the "half round" part is 0.700". The Mauser take-offs fit these dimensions very well. See pictures in next posts.
 
It gets better!
 
If I take a .222 Rimmed case (essentially a .223 Rem with a rim), neck it up to .323" and stick a 125-grain spitzer in it, I have a GREAT 100-yd plinker that keeps the chamber pressure under 20,000 PSI! Guess what? Obtaining .222 Rimmed brass and .323" bullets is a "piece of cake". (I made one of these cartridges already, from a .223 Rem case.) Of course, Hornady has stopped making the 125 8mm bullets - . I don't care too much, as I have many hundreds of them. But... Plinking uses up hundreds of bullets - fast. Nonetheless, I'm likin' this - A LOT! I've even got a name for it... The .32 Honest.
 
Finally, I found a source of inexpensive tool steel and 4140 bar stock. Now that I have one Stevens Favorite receiver in hand, I can make another (or two or two hundred) from the same steels that "modern" recievers are made. :D HAH! The 20,000 PSI limit will be raised to 25,000 PSI at least for those receivers.
 
Can you see me grinning now? :D:laugh:
 
Paul

I don't know what the bench bunch have done with making an 8mm-.222, but it would not surprise me if it exists.
I found Redding has .30-20 dies, using that with cast bullets sized about .308 would be a good fit, even jacketed .306-.308.
Redding seems to support the smaller bench wildcatters.

I have said it before Paul, you are a guru. Not only do you think outside the box but you think between the layers the box is made of!  
 
 
How does the twist of the 8mm Mauser barrel compare to the what is required of your .32 Honest?
 
How did you go about making a .222R from .223 cases? In my experiance the .222 Rimmed is simply a .222 Remington with a rim added. Its a popular case for Cadet Martini conversions.
 
Im also guessing that due to your past experiances with cast projectiles that they will not be on the menu. Are you going to use lighter pistol projectiles for plinking? And what sort of loads / velocities will you be trying to achieve?

QuoteI have said it before Paul, you are a guru.

You might wanna be rethinking that comment after I report the following.
 
Just when I was breakin' my arm patting myself on the back, reality reared it's ugly head. The problem doesn't appear to be fatal, but it's certainly life-threatening.
 
As I said earlier, I made up a .32 Honest - sorta - as it was from a .223 case as opposed to the .222 Rimmed. However, they're both the same length and head diameter. With length being the significant dimension. I MAY be able to load the cartridge - it looks like it - but it's gonna be a tight fit between the hammer and the breech. The .25-21 and .25-25 definitely will NOT work in this action, regardless of pressure issues. Nor will anything much longer than a .223 Rem. Like I said, it looks like - before I have a chamber reamed - that I can finagle the .32 Honest into the chamber. But... the verdict is still out 'till I get a chamber close to that of a .223 Rimmed reamed.
 

Quote from: 22hornetHow does the twist of the 8mm Mauser barrel compare to the what is required of your .32 Honest? Since I'll be using the 8mm 125 bullets @ ~1900 f/s, twist shouldn't be an issue for the Honest in a Mauser 98 take-off barrel. I'll have a look at my twist rate calculator and see what it says. See attached image.
 
How did you go about making a .222R from .223 cases? I didn't. I just made a rimless one from a .223 Rem. I have to wait for the .222 Rimmed brass @ $1.60 each to hit the ground for the real thing.
 
 
In my experiance the .222 Rimmed is simply a .222 Remington with a rim added. That's my understanding.
 
Its a popular case for Cadet Martini conversions. Cool. Maybe it'll be easier to get brass than my first searches suggest.
 
Im also guessing that due to your past experiances with cast projectiles that they will not be on the menu. I think that is correct, but I will not shut the door on that, particularly since these will be relatively low velocity rounds.
 
Are you going to use lighter pistol projectiles for plinking? Nope. The 125 Hornady - for it's BC - is the bullet I'm designing the cartridge around.
 
And what sort of loads / velocities will you be trying to achieve? With the 125 Hornady, on paper, I can get 1900 f/s MV at 20,008 PSI. I'll post some QuickLoad trajectory tables below.

I'll post tables for the 125 Hornady, and the 220 Sierra BTSP. The 125 actually does better ballistically over 100 yds than the 220, even though it's BC is WAY less, because it gets going so much faster to start with. Note also the energies of both.
 
Actually, it looks like I'm going to have to wait for my daughter to get off the computer with QL on it before I can post those tables. But it won't be long.
 
Don - Anything you can find on the 8x.223R would be greatly appreciated.
 
Paul

What about a 44 Mag necked down to a .323 loaded with a 110gr RN cast bullet? A 41 Mag or 357 would both be interesting too.

HB, the shank on a Favorite is very small for such a large diameter case. I designed a 30/357 many years  ago but I have it on a homemade SS action that will take the pressure of very hot loads. You can eyeball the cartridge in Ackley's second volume of his Shooters and Reloaders book in the pistol section. PO made up a Colt SA revolver using this cartridge but used standard 32 cal. pistol bullets. An Ackley affeciando by the name of Max Miller in South Dakota now owns this gun. It has two fitted cylinders. One in 32/20 the other in 30/357 Hoskins.      ...........Paul H

Good to know Paul. What about a 32-20 straightened out to the .323?

HB - At .457", the .44's a bit "big" in the head for the 0.666" barrel stub. The .357 would be OK, but I'd hafta check on the ballistics. I had a little conversation with Paul Hoskins. I wanted to know what problems he ran into when he was fiddling with converting the Favorite to CF. It's a good thing I did. He explained that the problem isn't that the frame "can't handle it" from a deformation perspective, rather, it's too "springy". The geometry of the linkage is such that the breechblock can easily be "pushed back" at the shot, and then spring back into its proper position after the pressure goes down. Never really 'deforming' the frame or the pins/screws.
 
This is a real issue. I'm not sure how it will work out, but it makes sense once I thought about and had the action parts in my hands. It's not the barrel wall thickness nor hte frame thickness. Both are compeltely adequate to the task of handling CF pressures. The problem is the "sloppiness/weakness" of the linkage design. I'm gonna calculate some "bolt thrust" numbers, and see how they compare to the .22 RF's.
 
In the mean time, and assuming the .32 Honest will "work", here are the trajectory numbers:
 
I'll post a picture of the .32 Honest a bit later.
 
Paul

The "shine" is wearing quickly off the .32 Honest as a viable cartridge for the Stevens Favorite action. The bolt thrust calculations are below. The assumptions and starting conditions are:
 
For the 32 Honest:
20,000 PSI chamber pressure,
0.440" head diameter.
Head area = 0.152 square inches.
Bolt thrust = 0.152 * 20,000 = 3041 pounds. (Head area * chamber pressure).
 
For the .22 RF:
26,000 PSI chamber pressure,
0.270" head diameter.
Head area = 0.018 square inches.
Bolt Thrust = 0.018 * 26,000 = 1488 pounds.
 




 
Based on these numbers, it doesn't look good for the CF cartridge. It appears, that since the metal strangth is really not the issue with the Favorite action, the "ruler" with which any "new" cartridge must be measured is something like 1500 pounds of "bolt thrust". Even that - 1500 pounds of bolt thrust - is apparently the absolute max figure, as lotsa folks have complained that the Favorite can't really handle a High Velocity .22 RF without flexing.
 
Paul

If you used the 257 barrel then you could do the 256 Win Mag.

Bug, the 32/20 necked up to 8mm would be the biggest bullet dia. that could be used in the 32/20 case. With the .323 dia. bullet, it would leave just enough taper in the case to release the bullet without having a case mouth larger than the base dia. according to my ciphering.  ............Paul H

QuoteIf you used the 257 barrel then you could do the 256 Win Mag.

That looks doable size-wise, but I've got my doubts WRT to "bolt thrust".
 
Paul

It sounds to me like one would need to limit the energies to approximate the 22 RF, standard velocity to really maintain safety.  That's a real shame, 'cause this sounded like a great "rook" rifle.  I've been interested in a great CF plinking rifle, myself.  I've got an old Springfield 22 single shot (bolt) action that needs rebarreling.  I have even thought about changing out the firing pin for a CF and rebarreling in .32 ACP.  Of course, another option is to rebarrel in .17 HM2.  Opps, better pay my gas bill first.:o

So... The challenge, is not to fabricate "more of the same", but to figure out how to modify the existing action design (particularly the linkage) so that it can handle some CF cartridges.
 
I'm kind of excited about the .32 Honest as a 'plinker' in a nice, compact little rifle. Running the pressure up just over 22,000 PSI will get that 125 up to 2000 f/s at the muzzle. The impact velocity at 200 yds is 1455 f/s. Energy's only 588 ft-lbs, but I suspect that would be adequate for deer with the 8mm bullet if you really felt you needed to reach out to 200 yds with it. However out to 100, it's a doozie, with an impact velocity of 1700 f/s and a little over 800 ft-lbs of energy. Plenty for southern white-tails.
 
Looks like I'm going ot have to spend some time trying to redesign the Steven Single Shot Action.
 
Paul
 
Steve - Looks like we were composing at the same time. I agree with your assessment.

So this whole bolt thrust problem, was this why they used long skinny cases such as the .25-25 and .28-30? To limit the surface area pushing on the bolt?