While hunting with HB last week, he casually asked me, "So... Now that the 8mm SLT is blooded, what's the next project?" :D
 
Truth of the matter is, I hadn't thought about it at that point. I had been 'pedaling' so fast trying to get the SLT and the .375x.284 Win ready for the hunt that I hadn't been thinking about "what next". However, since my list of "wants" is 'extensive', :D it wasn't difficult to come up with something pretty quick.
 
As some of you know, I really like drillings. Really like 'em. However, I truly don't see how I'll ever have the skill or wherewithall to actually fabricate one. HOWEVER, a "Cape Gun", (double barrel, side-by-side, shotgun-rifle combination), IS in the realm of possibilities when my skills and access to the necessary tools is considered. So...
 
I think the next project is a 16 ga X .416x.348 Win Cape Gun.
 
I've got an unfired Huglu 16 ga I got when I was buying arms for investing purposes. It is a low-grade model, with fixed chokes and a nickle-plated (I think) receiver. It's not one of a pair like my other Huglus are because it is the only 16 they had with a straight stock. (My other Huglus are paired, to give one each to my children at some point in the future.) I had intended this 16 to be my upland bird gun, but I later got the Collath drilling (16x16x.44-40), and a beautiful cased SxS Huglu with a matching set of 28 ga and .410" barrels. The 28 is perfect for ptarmigan and grouse. The 16 was quickly relegated to the "not used" category. A double rifle or Cape Gun seems like a good use for this arm.
 
I've ordered a .416 A&B barrel from Midway, and the drawings (for approval) for the the .416x.348 Win should arrive via email today from Pacific Tool and Guage. If the drawings are "good", I'll order the reamer from PTG today, and forward the drawings on to Hornady so they can make the reloading dies. The reamer with floating pilot, delivered, should be $150, and the dies, delivered, should be $120.
 
I'll profile the barrel to fit inside the 16's right barrel (-0.005" OD), and epoxy it in place after regulating to be "on" windage-wise at 150 yds. The 16 currently has 26" barrels, and I might leave them that long, but probably I'll shorten them to 24" or even 22".
 
So why the .416 caliber you ask?
 
Well, mostly because I like "big bores" these days, and having just made the .375x.284 Win, I wasn't interested in another .375 at the moment. .358 would have been a consideration, but it's just a bit on the small side in my perspective of "big bore".
 
Considering that I have reamers (rough and finish) for the .416 Rem Mag, why not that chambering? A good question. Especially considering the reamers. I remind you of my newly implemented personal ballistic standards:
1) Deliver 2000 ft-lbs (and no more considering the other constraints below) to 300 yds,
2) Keep muzzle energy to less than 3600 ft-lbs in order to keep recoil in the "fun" zone,
3) Keep total vertical displacement less than 12" over 300 yds, and
4) in this case, since this arm will be built on a shotgun action, I intend to keep the chamber pressures below 35,000 PSI.
 
When I started doing the calculations, it was difficult to meet #2 AND #4 above in the huge Rem Mag case. Which, by the way, is the same case as the 8mm Rem Mag, necked up to .416. In addition, I feel that a rimmed cartridge is more "appropriate" for a Cape Gun than a non-rimmed one, and much prefered (by me anyway) over a belted case. Of course these are personal, emotional, preferences and have nothing to do with actual performance.
 
I also have a set (one rougher and two finishers) of .404 Jeffery reamers. So why not that case? Because... I can find no "good" bullets in .423" that will satisfy criteria #s 1 AND 2 AND 3 above. The bullets available in .423 have such poor BCs which, when combined with their heavy weight and resulting low muzzle velocities, cause "rainbow" trajectories out to 300 yds, and anemic (relative to 2000 ft-lbs) delivered energies.
 
I also considered the .444 Marlin and the .405 Win. Both cartridges I really like. Still, a .416 Hawk 350-grain spitzer with a BC of .515+ charged by a .348 Win case is tough to beat ballistically, and fits my personal preferences for a rimmed cartridge.
 
The .45-70 is a "good" candidate, but for me, it is finding a place emotionally very near the '06. Like the '06, it's a great cartridge, but just too much BS surrounding it these days for me to want to build a custom firearm around it. The .50-90 - AKA .50 Alaskan - is also a good cartridge, but I've already got one of those. The .577 Snider was also 'in the running', but it's got too much trouble associated with getting a barrel for that caliber. The .450-.577 Martini was considered, but brass was the issue there. In the end, the .416x.348 Win seemed like a 'winner' for all the emotional as well as practical reasons.
 
Should I ever have occasion to hunt dangerous game like Cape buffalo in Africa or water buffalo in Australia, I can always load the left barrel with a 16 ga slug...
 
All this hassle with bullets with respect to selecting a case has me more motivated than ever to seriously start making my own bullets. Both the .444 Marlin and the .405 Win would have been real contenders had they had bullets available that could let these cases perform up to their potential within my set of criteria. No one should think that I think these cartridges - the .405 and the .444 - are anything less than great cartridges. I REALLY like them, and think they are great hunting cartridges even with the bullets available for them. They just weren't in the mix when compared to the .416" in the context of my personal performance criteria.
 
So...
 
There it is - the .416x348 Win Cape Gun.
 
Paul

Sounds like a plan to me. Especially the single rifle barrel to register and using the smoothbore side for birds or back up

Registering is, I am told, a real 'art', Al. A SxS rifle is pretty high on my lists of "wants", so I figured I'd start the 'art' training with a single barrel to register. I expect to learn quite a bit about registration with just the single barrel.
 
Maybe I should explain that I have no intention of ever shooting this Cape Gun at 300 yds. I simply use the 300-yd criteria as a 'ruler' with which I can objectively compare the performance of multiple cartridges/bullets. I suspect that this gun would never get shot at anything over 200 yds, and even 200 ydss would be a pretty rare shot at game. My expected use for it would be grouse hunting during moose season. While shooting grouse, I might see a moose, and would have the weapon at hand to 'deal with the situation'.
 
I have approved PTG's drawings, and the reamer should be here in a couple of weeks. I'll send the drawings on to Hornady and call them on Monday. Typically, they quote a 6 wk delivery time for custom dies. On occassion I get them sooner... on occassion later. I'm not in a hurry here, so I won't press them for a quick delivery. I ordered some bullets (50) from Hawk, and I would expect them by the end of the week.
 
The barrel should be here on Monday, and I'll start setting up to start the project. There are still some decisions to be made with regard to the barrel - primary of which is "How long?" If I shorten the shotgun barrel even two inches, it's going to ruin the existing fixed choke. Since I can't make the bore "smaller", that would likely mean threading the shotgun bore for choke tubes. Not a particularly challenging problem, but extra work nonetheless. I'm gonna hafta 'feel' the barrel and think about it a bit before I make that final decision.
 
In the mean time, I've got to get the 8mm Steyr Short Throat finished, (stocked and a load for the 125-grain worked up), and get the .375x.284 Win shooting straighter.
 
"Trading" the 4-wheeler and it's associated paraphrenalia for the lathe and mill may have been the best "trade" I've ever made.... :D
 
Paul

Just a little update...
 
I got the reamer drawings off to Hornady. Their custom shop is a bit frustrating. Some of you may recall that they were "having some trouble" last year when I ordered the custom .376 Steyr dies. What was supposed to take 6 weeks at the most ended up taking 9. This time, I'm told that they will quit working on December 5th, and won't start back up until January 5th. I was told that "We'll try to get it done before we shut down for Christmas, but if we don't, we'll get to it in January." Anybody wanna take bets on the likelihood it gets done "before we shut down for Christmas"?
 
It's not really a practical issue, as I don't expect to be needing reloading dies before January. It's just that I wish businesses could just tell the truth up front. If it takes 8 weeks to get a set of custom dies made, don't 'advertise' that it will take no longer than 6. Still, I give them credit - and my continued business - for at least DOING this kind of custom work. There's a lot to be said for getting something done.
 
Haven't received the Hawk bullets yet either. :frown  Again, I don't need them yet, it just annoys me when a business tells me it's going to do one thing - deliver within 5 working days - and does something else - deliver in MORE than 5 working days. I did't ask for speed - I don't need it - I just ask for the TRUTH.
 
I've taken repeated measurements on the bore of the shotgun, and I have a pretty good idea about the profile. Nonetheless, I'm going to cast the muzzle, (choke), and the chamber with Cerrosafe and get the most precise measurements I can for those two critical tapered areas. The rest of the bore can fit with a bit more, (0.003"), slop.
 
Based on what I have been reading about installing barrel liners, the barrel is only going to be about 0.0015" smaller in OD than the shotgun bore's ID. Since I intend to use LocTite as the "glue", (at least initially), I think the tolerances need to be as close as possible. If I were instead soldering the barrel in the bore, I would probably allow 0.005" at least between the barrel OD and the bore ID.
 
The muzzle is going to be where "things" get "interesting". It is my understanding that 0.001" deflection at the muzzle causes 1" of point of impact movement at 100 yds. My primary concern is windage. I want the barrel to shoot "on" windage-wise (not be left or right of point of aim), at somewhere between 100 and 150 yds. If, after the first couple of test shots, the point of impact is several inches "east" or "west" of the point of aim, I'll need to move the muzzle several thousandths in the opposite direction. That means there has to be room to move the necessary thousandths. That also means that it is highly likely that the barrel will be "in and out" of the shotgun bore several times before it is ready to be "fixed" in place.
 
Of secondary concern is elevation. I'd like the point of impact to be somewhere near 3" higher than the point of aim at somewhere between 100 and 150 yds. I've already 'got my mind right' about this spec though, and I expect to be fairly 'lenient' when it comes to meeting it.
 
In order to facilitate all of this regulation, I am going to drill a small hole, (sized for a #6 screw), through the chamber wall of the shotgun very near, (0.250"), the breech. I will thread this hole and insert a 6-48 set-screw. Then, when regulating, I will insert the barrel in the bore, set the set-screw and shim the muzzle with 0.001" shims. After test-firing, I can adjust the muzzle shims for proper windage and elevation. When the correct "fit" is determined, I'll cover the barrel in LocTite, slip it in the bore, and insert the appropriate shims at the muzzle. With some luck, the point of impact will be close to what it was prior to LocTiting the barrel in place. If it's not, the barrel only need to be heated to loosen the LocTite. And then I start over. Oh yeah, the extractor slot has to be milled into the breech of the .416 barrel before regulation starts.
 
I think I'm going to try my hand at fabricating a whole new extractor. It appears to me that fabricating a new one with the appropriate radius for the .416 x.348 Win case might be easier than trying to "build up" the existing one. If it turns out that I'm wrong about it being easier to make a new one, I can always fall back to having the existing one modified..
 
I'm off to cast the choke and chamber, and then to the lathe.
 
:D:D:D
 
Paul

That sounds amazing, Paul.
It's a pity you didn't ask us Aussies about 577/450 brass though.
I have a friend who has contacts at Bertram Brass.
He can get seconds that are perfectly good apart from the odd blemish or knock in the case mouth that are easily removed by polishing or a good FL sizing and instead of AUD$6 dollars a case he gets them for AUD$2.50 a case.
After conversion that equals about US$1.61 per case or US$80 per 50.
But I guess you can probably get 348 Win brass much cheaper again and you're hapy to case form.
The other aspect is that the rim diameter of 577/450 may've actually been bigger than a 16g shell.
But this drilling should be something really special.
I look forward to pics and further progress!

I appreciate the info on the Martini brass. While not 'in the cards' for this project, a .577/.450 of one sort or another is high on my priority list. However, even the discounted price of $US1.61 is pretty steep for my tastes. I hate paying a buck a piece for brass, let alone $1.61. I can get the .348 brass for $US60/100 plus shipping, so cost is still a big factor to me. Nonetheless, I appreciate the offer.
 
I spent 3 hours at the lathe yesterday profiling the barrel. That, after I had cast the choke and the chamber with Cerrosafe. (The castings didn't really provide more info than my detailed measurements.) After reducing the barrel outside diameter to 0.670" so it would fit in the shotgun barrel, there remains 0.254-ish" of barrel wall. (0.670 - 0.416 = 0.254). That is plenty of 'meat' to contain the pressure, especially since I am only going to 'run this up' to no more than 35,000 PSI.
 
I was getting "tired" (mentally fatigued) when I finished the main barrel reduction, and I've learned - the hard way - to quit when I feel like I'm "pushing". Enthusiasm to get the job done has lead to mistakes too many times for me. So, I've got to profile the chamber today, and since I have neither the chamber reamer or the reloading dies, there's really no need for haste. Furthermore, there's no hunting trip coming up on which I want to take this piece.
 
I hope to have the barrel 'set' today. I don't think I will need the "set-screw" mentioned above. The barrel fit is pretty snug (there's only about 0.002" between the rifle barrel and the shotgun bore). I'm confident that I can accomplish the 'regulation' without needing to fix the barrel in the bore even "semi-permanently". I do need to get some 0.001" shims though. My confidence in the use of LocTite is also bolstered. I feel sure it will hold just fine.
 
The next "big deal" will be fabricating the new extractor. The Huglu extractor is quite simple. We'll see how 'simple' it is to make one from 'scratch'.
 
After I get the chamber profiled, I'll post a picture or two.
 
Paul

Paul, I don't know how you feel about Lee Presicion, but they will make you a set of custom dies as well, for the mere price of $50.

I was looking at a 45-70 SxS at one time but I didn't know how accurate it would be and you know how fussy I am about that sort of thing.

RJ

I have no problem with Lee dies, but I checked with Lee once on dies, and they wanted $150. I'll have to check again.
 
I think getting a SxS rifle to shoot "straight" would be a challenge during fabrication. I'm expecting to learn a great deal about the process on this project.
 
I spent another 3 hours at the lathe, and the .416 barrel is in the 16 ga bore very nicely. I left the breech 0.100" proud of the breech of the shotgun barrel. I'll tune that in when I ream the chamber. So now I'll sit around waiting for the reamer. Of course, I still have to make the new extractor, but I have to wait for the reamer to do that, as I need the reamer's rim diameter.
 
I should probably clarify something I posted above. The 0.254" I mentioned above is the total thickness remaining after subtracting the bore. WALL thickness will be half that or 0.127". Again, 0.127" is plenty of "meat" especially for the low pressure. And of course that's without figuring whatever the shotgun barrel wall will add, but I'm not relying on any of that.
 
Also, it turns out that the barrels arent' really nose-heavy at all. I forgot to consider that I was significantly lowering the .416 barrel's weight by reducing its OD to 0.670". In fact, I don't think the result, (the total of the left shotgun barrel and the right rifle barrel), weighs any more than a "regular" 24" bolt action rifle barrel. So... I'll be keeping it as close to full length (26") as I can. That will preserve the left barrel's choke and eliminate any need to install screw-in chokes.
 
Paul
 
PS - Look here http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi for Lee custom die costs. I was wrong, it's now $170... $130 set-up fee plus $40 for the resulting dies.
 
Paul

Got the Hawk bullets while I was gone, and the reamer will be on it's way Monday. I should have it before the end of the week and be fire-forming brass pretty soon therafter. I'm going to call Hornady Monday, to see if they've "started" on the reloading dies.
 
Paul

This project has moved on fast. Keep it coming gitano, I'm watching this space to keep hold of your progress.

Let me quote Hornady:
 

QuoteIt does not look as if your dies will be sent to you before Christmas. It will probably be some time in January.

Wanna bet it's more like February or even March?

Paul

I'm not happy with not being able to get reloading dies in a "timely manner". So, as usual, I'm contemplating making them myself. Of course it would be silly to order a $120 die-forming reamer for the .416x.348 Win, a $25 die blank and associated 'extras' like decapping rod and ball, and then cut one die with it. However...
 
I can get a Lee full-length .348 Win set of dies for $26. I can then ream the neck of the sizing die out to .436", make a new expander ball, and voila', I'll have the FL resizing die I need. Since I now have an oven for heat treating, I can both anneal the Lee die first before reaming, and reharden it after. I'm thinking seriously about cancelling the Hornady order.
 
On futher reflection, I could even use the .416x348 Win chamber reamer to open the FL sizing die to chamber dimensions and drill and machine the top of the die for taking neck sizing inserts. That way I'd have a necksize-only die that I could use neck-sizing inserts of any size I chose to make. Meaning... That any other x.348 Win wildcat I might make, I wouldn't have to get new sizing dies for, I'd only need to make the appropriate insert(s). AND, if I bought a separate Lee FL sizing die, I could FL resize as needed, and neck resize only most of the time. Hmmm.... Why didn't I think of this before??? IN FACT...
 
Instead of simply buying another FL sizer only, I could just get another set for $26 and modify the bullet seating die to a neck-sizer instead, and then I wouldn't have to use the chamber reamer to ream the FL sizing die. I'd only need to make a new expander ball. I'd then have one FL sizer, one neck-only sizer for any .348-based cartridge with a caliber greater than or equal to .348, one seater, and one FL die to modify as needed in the future. All for $52 plus S&H. That's far better than $120 + S&H for one set of FL only dies from Hornady, even if they are .416x348 Win. So...
 
1) Buy two Lee .348 Win Fl resizing die sets.
2) Machine one of the bullet seating dies to become a neck-only sizer and make a appropriate inserts - .435", .436", and .437".
3) Ream the neck of one of the FL sizer dies to .436" and make new expander ball for its decapping rod.
4) Keep other FL sizer 'in reserve' for whatever x348 Win wildcat might be 'next'.
 
Just a little 'stream of consciousness' rambling...
 
Paul

You are getting to be dangerous my friend.

Got the reamer today. I'll chamber tomorrow. :D
 
Speaking of being dangerous...
 
I was pretty proud of myself for the reloading die analysis above. I decided to go to out the shop and make a neck expander for necking the .348 Win case up to accept the .416 bullet. I chucked a nice piece of round stock in my lathe an went to work. A couple of hours later, I had a very nice new necking up tool finished all but for threading the shank. This being the third one of these I have made, it was downright purty. The onliest thing left to do was cut the 7/8ths-14 threads in the shank so it could be screwed into my reloading press. Considering how the workpiece was oriented in the lathe, I decided to move the saddle left-to-right instead of righ-to-left. When it was fnished, it was a 'beautiful thang'. I took it in the house to try out.
 
I started it in the press, but the threads wouldn't 'grab'.
 
I tried a little more carefully.:huh:
 
After about a minute of trying to get it started, I took a careful look at it. DOH!
 
The threads were left-hand threads!!!
 
.
.
.
.
.
Shore is purty, but very nearly useless...
 
Just when I wuz thinkin' I wuz pretty smart... :o
 
Paul

Them gremlins are sneaky little devils aint they