My favorite deer rifle, the 6.5-'06AI is a joy to reload and is flatter shooting than virtually every non magnum caliber including the 270, 308, '06 and many belted magnums including the 7MM Remington mag.

Tips on fireforming brass. First I use 270 brass necked down rather than 25-'06 necked up. Two reasons....I own a 25-'06AI and don't need confusion and necking down rather than up has merit. When you neck a bullet up you loose case length. When you neck a bullet down, you gain case length. Of course you have to trim to 2.494 but when working with Ackleys it's been my experience that once you lose case length it will never come back....at least not in the lifetime of the case, That is one of the beauties of the Ackley bullet as your case triming days are essentially over. I never use real loads and bullets to fireform. It seems silly to run expensive bullets down your expensive barrel when 11 grains of bullseye topped to the bottom of the neck with cream of wheat and topped by a rolled up 22 patch stuffed in the neck makes the most perfect fireformed brass you will ever see period......oh, I forgot, you have to use a primer and pull the trigger....boom goes the dynamite.:)

Loading the Ackley is like loading anything else, however, you have a much bigger case to play with and you can get in trouble. If you read the hypola on the reloaders nest, you may lose body parts. Usually, you can gain 2 grains of powder in an Ackley before the pressure signs start.....sometimes more, sometimes less depending on powder, and how well your rifle, bolt and action match. However, I don't use the Acklies because of the 100 to 200 '/sec velocity increase rather the extra case volume allows me to load the new high BC super long bullets without the worry of overcompression and associated pressure problems. You also get a bonus of loooooong case life, nearly endless case life!:)

Shooting and numbers???? Stay tuned as I'm off to the range tomorrow. I will be loading up some 120gr Noslers and hope to get around 3250'/sec which is one super flat bullet! Stay tuned and regards, Rick.

Can't really say if that the 6.5 06 AI is popular here, but they are impressive ballistics given the powder charges. Just looked at the chart for the .264 Win Mag. Lots more powder for litle, if any gain.
 
How deep is the projectile seated into the case? 6.5 projectiles tend to be rather long and it looks like this one is seated deep.

Quote from: 22hornet;81313Can't really say if that the 6.5 06 AI is popular here, but they are impressive ballistics given the powder charges. Just looked at the chart for the .264 Win Mag. Lots more powder for litle, if any gain.
 
How deep is the projectile seated into the case? 6.5 projectiles tend to be rather long and it looks like this one is seated deep.

Hello Hornet. It's seated 30 thousandts off the lands. This is the beauty of the Ackley.....you can use these long bullets and still load max loads and keep the round at a length that will fit in smaller Mauser sized actions. This is my first and favorite wildcat. Regards, Rick.

Just a comment regarding "neck up" vs "neck down":
 
I don't particularly care one way or the other, but...
 
Just as there is an advantage to necking down instead of up - namely, case length preservation, there is an advantage to necking up instead of down - no need to 'peel' the neck. Necking down increases neck wall thickness - absolutely. In many cases this isn't an issue, but in some cases it is. Just as is the case with "up" vs "down" with regard to case length. Personally, neck wall thickness has caused me more trouble than neck length has, so if I have a choice, (which is rarely the case), I try to go up instead of down.
 
Paul

Quote from: gitano;81324Just a comment regarding "neck up" vs "neck down":
 
I don't particularly care one way or the other, but...
 
Just as there is an advantage to necking down instead of up - namely, case length preservation, there is an advantage to necking up instead of down - no need to 'peel' the neck. Necking down increases neck wall thickness - absolutely. In many cases this isn't an issue, but in some cases it is. Just as is the case with "up" vs "down" with regard to case length. Personally, neck wall thickness has caused me more trouble than neck length has, so if I have a choice, (which is rarely the case), I try to go up instead of down.
 
Paul

Hello Paul. There was another reason.....I have 500 once fired 270 brass and no extra 25-'06 brass. So, the decision was easy.:) Regards, Rick.

Yup...
 
Paul

Nice rifle Rick!

Good morning Gents',
 
Thanks for the tip on fire forming Sakorick.  I will use that method to form my new brass.  
My father sporterized a Springfield 03-A3 and had the chamber "Improved" in the early 1950s.  He shot everything you can immagine through it.  Jacketed, lead (with and without gas check) of every weight and configuration.  All he ever did beond forming the brass from military surpluss was neck size and he could get quarter inch groups at 100 yards with hand loads.  It is shot out now and he has passed away so it is rellagated to a wall hanger under a picutre of my mother with her first Wyoming antelope and the rifle.
One of my rifles, a 1990 vintage Winchester Model 70 with controled feed and champered in 30-06 Featherwieght is being Ackley Improved by my gunsmith.  I couldn't get better than 2.5" groups with it using factory ammo and loaded up some of the Barnes bullets only to find they didn't obturate to fill the lands and gas blew by the bullet.  The bore mikes out to .309 so I will have to go to Nosler partition and load it up a notch from factory preassures to seal off the gas and see if they will fly straight.  I figured the AI increase will bring the velocity back up from the short barrel on the Featherweight to book numbers.  Wish me luck.  Copperbuff

I was glad to find this thread. I have had an interest in the 6.5-06, hadn't really considered taking the extra step to the AI, but find that even more interesting. I have long been of the opinion that the 270 was vastly over-rated, not because it is inadequate for its given purpose, but because there were other calibers too closely related that did everything it did, but a little better, namely the 6.5-06 and 280 Rem. I bought a barrel in 25-06 (for a Mauser action) and now wish I had just waited and gotten the 6.5. I had hoped the 25 would be a great "beanfield" shooter, but I find I have to be careful with my Hani-rifle in 25-05. If I don't I end up with scope eye. (My eyebrow just gets too close to the scope in a prone position.)
 
In my one and only wildcat (so far, 338-06 JDJ) I have used starting 338-06 loads with a relatively inexpensive bullet which is still suitable for deer hunting for my fireforming loads. They are not as consistent, so not as accurate, but still more than adequate for deer at 100 yds, which is all I'm comfortable at for a pistol at this time, anyway. I'm trying to find some reduced loads for that one. I also neck down, rather than up. I start with 35 whelan cases. It's tricky because the shoulder on the JDJ is so abrupt, you have to curl the edge of the case mouth if you don't want to crunch the case. I take a 30-06 die, turn it into the press just until it touches the case mouth, then turn 1/4 turn more. That curls the edge of the mouth just enough to get it started into the JDJ die. After that, it's easy. Necking down also gives me a "false" or temporary shoulder to prevent the case from slipping into the chamber too far before fireforming.

I don't know anything about those big pistols but they sound like a hoot! I would be very interested in your 100 yard groups so please post when you get it operational. Regards, Rick.

Good morning,
This is a great forum for the "tinkerer" gunsmiths/hunter.  One thing about the Ackley Improvement you must have noticed is that detractors completely avoid the obvious advantage of being able to purchase factory ammo that will shoot perfectly well in the improved chamber with no adverse effect except a few feet per second less velosity in the light bullets.  The real advantage is in the use of heavy bullets.  Push a 220 grain Speer Hot Cour SP from a Federal Classic 30-06 factory cartridge through a chronograph and you won't see a whit of difference in velocity and you get a brand new fire formed case in the process.  Using a modern action and reloading to modern pressures makes the old work horse a real power house with many advantages for the reloader given the galaxy of projectiles to choose from.  The 30-06 factory loads are reduced pressure and safe for even the Winchester 1895 unless you go for some of the new "+P" loads at considerable increase in cost to the shooter.  The case hardened bolt face of the original 1895 lever action Winchesters made in the early 1900s will "pean out and open up headspace at an alarming rate, using +P ammo, on the 1895 as my dad found out, a very expensive fix that could have been desasterous.
The only downside of the AI chamber is the added recoil if you are sensitive to it.  I shoot a Ruger #1 .375 H&H without flinching so the 06AI is perfect for all the animals I am going to harvest on this side of the Planet.

Quote from: Copperbuff;83497Good morning,
This is a great forum for the "tinkerer" gunsmiths/hunter. One thing about the Ackley Improvement you must have noticed is that detractors completely avoid the obvious advantage of being able to purchase factory ammo that will shoot perfectly well in the improved chamber with no adverse effect except a few feet per second less velosity in the light bullets. The real advantage is in the use of heavy bullets. Push a 220 grain Speer Hot Cour SP from a Federal Classic 30-06 factory cartridge through a chronograph and you won't see a whit of difference in velocity and you get a brand new fire formed case in the process. Using a modern action and reloading to modern pressures makes the old work horse a real power house with many advantages for the reloader given the galaxy of projectiles to choose from.

You'll get no arguement from me. The other big advantage of all the Ackley cartridges is also the ability to load the new high BC bullets without running out of room. The 180gr Nosler is just as long as the 220gr Sierra. If you have a tight freebore, the standard '06 has a problem in that serious compression need to be done to keep the bullet off the rifling. The extra 6% case capacity in the Ackley really comes in handy. I don't waste bullets and powder fireforming as my cream of wheat formula not only does a perfect job but also reduces unnessary barrel wear. It's too bad the gun writers have poo pawed this fine enhancement for years. Even the new Sierra manual says the Ackley isn't worth the trouble.....how pathetic. Finally in the October 08 Shooting Times, Layne Simpson wrote a brilliant article titled "Coming of Age" where he discusses the new Nosler 280 Ackley improved. I emailed him and congratulated him on a fine article and then added.....I would like to see similar articles on the 243 Ackley, 257 Ackley, 25-'06 Ackley, 6.5-55 Ackley, 7mm Ackley, 6 and 6.5-'06 Ackley, 270 Ackley, 30-'06, and 350 Whelen Acklies. These articles will of course never happen as there are no factory cartridges for these calibers....no factory cartridges = no kickback = no article. Regards, Rick.

Hi guys,
Do any of you have any load data on the  6.5 06 ackley improved.  I recently got one and am hoping to find some reliable load data on it.
 
thanks

You've come to the right place, rjbeery. :D
 
Ol' John and rick will be along in no time.
 
Paul

Quote from: rjbeery;103714Hi guys,
Do any of you have any load data on the  6.5 06 ackley improved.  I recently got one and am hoping to find some reliable load data on it.
 
thanks

Hello rjberry. What bullet are you going to use? Regards, Rick.