new sharps

Started by buffalo bob, February 23, 2008, 05:43:45 AM

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buffalo bob

well i just ordered my new 1874 sharps 50-90.  billy dixon model. 32" bbl.  am starting to collect reloading supplies.  havent decided on powder yet.  i wont use real black because of corrosiveness.  a sub would be nice for the smoke.  or smokeless as last optioon.  of the subs which is preferred.  i have read all the manufacturers data but need info from real users.  i was in health care for a long time and know manufacturers shade the truth to fit their needs.  any data on goex, american pioneer, pyrodex, or other.  thanks in advance.

Alboy

I used 777 exclusively for a pheasant hunt in Kansas and was very pleased with the performqance.  No failure to ignite and good energy. Pyrodex works ok to but over the years I have had a few ignition problems, especially in wet weather with percussion. That may be moot in a center fire though.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

Jay Edward (deceased)

Quote from: buffalo bob;74584havent decided on powder yet.  i wont use real black because of corrosiveness.

Congratulations on your decision to order that new rifle.  I know they are expensive and a fella has to give it quite a bit of thought.

I wanted to say that I use only black powder and I do use 4759 at the base.  This not only cuts down dramatically on the fouling but makes it easier to clean while still giving me the velocities I want.

The corrosiveness of black powder is, I think, greatly overstated.  It's not like mercuric primers which can really cause problems and I've gone several days without cleaning the bore after a range session.  The barrels of my rifles are still pristine... even my muzzle loaders.  Please don't write it off because others have said it ruins the bore... it just ain't true.

I shoot lead exclusively in my single shots and make my own lube.  The duplex loading is not difficult and has served me well over the years.  I don't mind cleaning the rifle any more than I mind taking care of my truck, car or machines.

Give it a chance... I've won competitions against smokeless with my black powder duplex loads.

buffalo bob

i have read where you have to clean the bore after 1 or 2 shots to keep fouling from building up.  is this true.  i have no problem cleaning my gun, but where i shoot is no my property and a 3/4 mile walk.  be difficult to take all the cleaning equipment with me.  carrying a 13# rifle with ammo will be burdensome enough

Jay Edward (deceased)

Quote from: buffalo bob;74601i have read where you have to clean the bore after 1 or 2 shots to keep fouling from building up.  is this true.  

I have not found this to be true with duplex loading Bob.  The slightly higher pressures and, perhaps,  the smokeless in the bottom of the case makes the whole shebang burn cleaner.

One of the aspects of this, I'm sure, is that folks generally confuse fouling with corrosion.  All the residue left after a pure black powder shot is not corrosive.  It appears that just the 'salts' (which attract moisture) are the culprits.  A pure black powder load (like smokeless loads) does not 100% burn.

The unburnt powder of a smokeless load (most of it) comes out the end of the barrel and is seen as a muzzle flash.  Butttttt... it is not totally burned... that's why you have to clean modern rifles as well as the old ones.  The difference is that the residue that is left is no where near as hygroscopic (attracts moisture) as black powder.  But it is still there and even stainless steel barrel manufacturers say you should clean your barrel.

Black powder has the same muzzle flash but leaves more residue in the barrel which can attract moisture and cause the barrel to rust over a period of time if left uncleaned.  I've seen original Hawken rifles (over 150 years old) that had no pitting at all in the bore.  They were taken care of by the owners.

The duplex load is the best compromise from my point of view.  It allows me to use pure black powder and not have to clean for 10 or so shots.  By 'clean' I mean just run a rag down the bore... not the 'at home' cleaning that I like to do.

The duplex loading is simple for my .45-70 and .50-90 rifles.  7 grains of 4759 for the .45-70 and 9 grains for the .50-90 respectively.  10%.

The duplex loading is a compressed load... but just a gentle compression.  It is enough so that the powders don't mix and it generates maximum pressure for the cartridge.

In my .40-65 I use 7 grains of 4759 and stay around 1" at 100 yards with iron sights.  It has worked well on deer and black bear with the cast lead bullet.  I couldn't ask for more.  

I cast hard lead bullets and use my own lube... the primers are Federal Match and I make the cases myself.  I clean the cases as well but do not polish or buff them.  I like the way they look... sort of antique.

buffalo bob

may be worth a try.  would any slow burning smokeless work for the duplex load.  i use some retumbo for my big wby and it is supposed to be slow.  also have read of accurate 5744. have been reloading over 20 yrs but never black and always by the book.

Jay Edward (deceased)

4759 buffalo bob.  It's been used for decades and is a wonderful substitute for black powder/lead bullet shooting in old firearms.

I've used 4759 with absolutely no problem as long as I never exceeded 10% by weight with any black powder load.

 I am including an image to show you the use of 4759 in your Sharps.

buffalo bob

back to 777.  it states that it is 15% hotter than the others.  do i need to reduce volume load by that much or still load to give full case without compression

Alboy

Since I load my shotguns and rifles well below their adverised max I just use the same volume. If I were approaching any where near full case or max loads with BP I would definately start down 20% and work up to an accurate load.
 
In muzzle loaders my 54 likes 90 grains of 2F and the same load does very well in my 12 gauge and 10 gauge.
 
Drinksgin has done a fair amount of 777 work in cartridges I think. Maybe he will chime in here soon.
 
Jay is right that BP is not the raging acid many would have you believe. The cleaning between substitutes and BP is equal to me. No advantages in speed or messy, do not do it in the wifes sink unless she is very understanding.
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE
 
THIS TOO SHALL PASS

buffalo bob

i found a chart which tells me that 6.2cc's of black is equal to 93.5 gr. which is equal volumetrically to 68.5gr 777,    this is the volume of my case with a 525gr cp wfngc seated to crimp mark.     am i correct in that this is the way to load.  no air space and minimal compression.  seems like that would be very close to an old factory load.  i assume that would be safe.  is there more danger loading too heavy or leaving an air pocket. i dont want to damage my new firearm.

dave3872

Quote from: buffalo bob;74584well i just ordered my new 1874 sharps 50-90. billy dixon model. 32" bbl. am starting to collect reloading supplies. havent decided on powder yet. i wont use real black because of corrosiveness. a sub would be nice for the smoke. or smokeless as last optioon. of the subs which is preferred. i have read all the manufacturers data but need info from real users. i was in health care for a long time and know manufacturers shade the truth to fit their needs. any data on goex, american pioneer, pyrodex, or other. thanks in advance.
I just had a  shiloh rebarreled fron 45-120 to a 50-90 sharps.  Real black powder is the real deal.  I can clean my sharps in less than 10 minutes. Get Mike Venturinos' book" Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West".  He has loads for most of the black powder cartridges and cleaning methods. Big bullets make big recoil.  535 grain bullets in front of 100 grains of Goex cartridge powder makes my 300 Weatherby seem mild.  Black powder cartridge guns are a lot of fun and suprisingly accurate.

buffalo bob

may use black later,  for now i have 100 525gr cast performance bullets which are for smokeless.  not the right lube i think.   so will start out with 777 or goex pinnacle.  have read that 3f if more consistant in results.  am very anxious to get started.  have the cases all prepped.  feel like a little child with a new toy.

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