I've been having a look at these rifles and wonder if they're worth a go.
The Casull looks great on paper but between the flat point bullets and the 20" bbl I can't help but think it's a tad limited.
Does anyone own one of the Rossi Pumas in 454 Casull or has anyone tried them?
The price is certainly right.
I'm just wondering if it'll be worth the trouble in the end, especially when most of my shooting is small to medium game between 100 and 200 yards and often over a spotlight.

Hey Kombi,

Have you checked out what a packet of 20 454 Casull cost, they are  not cheap Down Under, if you can find them. But I would certainly loved to own one myself. They should have done the Casull in a 24 inch barrel as they only come in the 20 inch carbine.

Those Pumas look very very nice, wouldn't mind a stainless steel 16 inch carbine in 357 mag. Good for home defence, if you live in Papua New Guinea, no such thing as home defence weapons here in Oz.

Cheers

Funny you should reply to this thread, Jorge.
In the Cleaver Firearms ad from the current Australian Shooter they're listing the blued 24" octagonal bbl rifle for $705 and the stainless 24" octagonal bbl rifle for $749, pretty good if you ask me.
They come chambered in 357 Mag, 44-40, 44 Mag or 45 LC and although you can load the 45 up I reckon the 44 Mag would be the best bet.
Cheap cases, cast or jacketed pills and plenty of oomph on a pig, goat or even roo close up.
Mind you, it would probably be a tad silly for me to buy.
The shooting I do is primarily in the paddocks after rabbit, hare, the odd fox and roos so the extended range of a flatter shooting rifle cartridge would be more useful.
Still, it would be cool to blow rounds through.........

kombi,

I have a '92 Winchester in .45 Colt, but haven't tried the Puma rifles.
 
I use it mostly as a saddle gun when I'm riding in brushy country or chasing bears with dogs.  I shoot a 300 grain JSP at about 1700 fps, and recoil is pretty snappy.
 
Whether the .454 Casull chambering would be worth getting or not would likely depend on the use.  For smaller stuff, there's likely little need.  That 300 grain bullet at 1700 fps is about the same as full bore .454 Casull loads from a handgun, and not much stops them.
 
To load handgun caliber bullets any faster than that might require some pretty well constructed bullets.  They're usually not made to shoot at rifle velocities.
 
Daryl

Hey Daryl,

Is the 454 Casull a .458 cal and could you reload it with 45-70 or 458 win mag bullets if it is that cal to shoot it out of a Puma rifle?

Cheers

Jorge, I don't see what you would gain from the extra 4" of barrel. The powder capacity is small enough that I suspect that you get 100% burn and maximum velocity out of a 20" barrel. Maby Gitano can check that for us.

Quote from: Jorge in Oz;71112Hey Daryl,
 
Is the 454 Casull a .458 cal and could you reload it with 45-70 or 458 win mag bullets if it is that cal to shoot it out of a Puma rifle?
 
Cheers

Jorge,
 
No. The .454 Casull and .45 Colt both use .451 diameter bullets, so the .458 diameter bullets won't work in them.
 
I'm sure there are some bullets that will work out of a .454 Casull rifle, but I'd be careful which ones I used. If a person NEEDS the extra umph that the .454 offers over the .45 Colt, then it wouldn't be good to have a bullet that fails when you need it most.
 
I load Speer bullets designed for the .454 Casull handguns in .45 Colt cases for my rifle, and they work pretty well. I'd have to test them at an added 400 fps to know for sure what they'd do at the additional velocity a Casull chambered rifle offers.
 
Daryl

QuoteMaby Gitano can check that for us.

Here ya go.
 
QuickLoad says: (as the only experience I have is with the .454 Casull in a revolver)
 
Using the Speer 300 grain SP and 19 grains of AP 90 (ADI Powder), the chamber pressure is ~58,000 PSI (above CIP max of 56,565 and below SAAMI max of 65,000), the muzzle velocity is 1700 f/s, and as HB postulated, there is 100% burn in the 20" bbl.
 
Using a 24" bbl, the chamber pressure is of course the same, and the MV goes up to 1731 f/s.
 
There are several powders that yield MVs above 1850 f/s, but I don't think they're available Down Under.
 

QuoteTo load handgun caliber bullets any faster than that might require some pretty well constructed bullets. They're usually not made to shoot at rifle velocities.

That's not been my experience.
 
Anticipating an interest in trajectory, I've attached QL's estimated trajectory table for a 6" target out to 200 yds. At 300 yds, it's 48 inches low and has only a little over 700 ft-lbs of energy.
 
Paul

Wonder what happens if you substitute a Hornady saboted ML bullet in there? 250 or 300gr .45 w/o sabot or 200gr .40 with sabot?
 
The BC is listed on their website, but I can't access it from this PC.

QL doesn't have any information for sabot'd bullets as far as I know. It should be kept in mind that QL is purely a 'calculator'. It is not a database of performance based on actual tests. Therefore, the QL-calculated internal ballistics performance figures (muzzle velocity, chamber pressure, barrel transit times, etc), are primarily a function of bullet weight and powder. Therefore, all 200-grain bullets will have similar QL results with the same powder.
 
WRT external ballistics, the primary factor determining performance is ballistic coefficient. So, start any 200-grain bullet with the same MV and BC as any other 300-grain bullet, and you get the exact same external ballistics.
 
QL makes no guesses about terminal ballistics.
 
So... If I wanted to estimate the internal ballisitc performance of a sabot'd bullet, I'd simply use a bullet of similar weight and design (BC). The effect of the sabot is not calculable by QL as far as I know. The external ballistics are purely a function of MV and BC, so again, a bullet of similar design (BC) and MV will give similar results.
 
Paul