Go Back   The Hunter's Life > GUNS & AMMO > RELOADING
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #1  
Old 07-01-2005, 01:51 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 68
Posts: 19,104
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Went to the range a couple of days ago, and shot the .338 MAI among others. Results as far as precision, muzzle velocities and chamber pressures were just as expected. Therefore, I'm about 'done' with the workup on this rifle. I see no need to shoot any more other than for practice, and since this is John's rifle, I don't really need to be "practicing" with it.

Below are targets and graphs from shots with 160 grain Barnes "X" FB, 200 grain Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertip, and Nosler 210 Partition. The 200 and 210 shoot about the same, but the 160 is poor, to put it nicely. I'm sure I could fiddle with the 165 and get it to shoot better, but I'm not particularly interested for some reason. I didn't shoot the 175, but given the other three's consistent performance, I wouldn't expect it to deviate from previous performance either. The only bullet below 210 that I haven't tried is the Barnes 185 "X" BT which is coated. I was pleasantly surprised with it's performance in some loads I worked up recently in a .338 Win Mag.

Anyway, here are the stats, and the targets follow.

160 grain Barnes "X" FB
59.0 grains of N-150
Average Muzzle Velocity - 3170 f/s
Group Width - 3.86"
Group Height - 1.76"
Max SPread - 4.24"
Area of 95% Prediction Ellpse - 99.77 square inches

200 CT Ballistic Silvertip
54.0 grains of N-150
Average Muzzle Velocity - 2823 f/s
Group Width - 0.78"
Group Height - 0.92"
Max SPread - 1.20"
Area of 95% Prediction Ellpse - 11.04 square inches

210 Nosler Partition
53.0 grains of N-150
Average Muzzle Velocity - 2733 f/s
Group Width - 0.51"
Group Height - 0.81"
Max SPread - 1.00"
Area of 95% Prediction Ellpse - 7.24 square inches

Paul

OBTW, the lowest left 4th hole in the 210 group was the first out of a clean bbl. As I stated in the thread about the 7x300, I don't include fouling shots in group size calculations. If you want more justification, please go to the 7x300 thread.

PPS - It's REALLY annoying when the THL image editor rearranges the images to suite it's whims. I'll see what I can do to get the target images in the order I want them instead of the order the manager wants them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Range Data 6-29-05 005.jpg (42.9 KB, 211 views)
File Type: jpg 007 small thl.jpg (71.8 KB, 169 views)
File Type: jpg Range Data 6-29-05 006.jpg (42.1 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg 008 small thl.jpg (93.0 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg 010 small thl.jpg (73.6 KB, 186 views)
File Type: jpg MAI 160 Barnes.JPG (79.3 KB, 218 views)

Last edited by gitano; 01-15-2006 at 11:19 PM..
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #2  
Old 07-01-2005, 09:38 PM
Jay Edward (deceased) Jay Edward (deceased) is offline
Senior Family Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,289
Jay Edward (deceased) will become famous soon enoughJay Edward (deceased) will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Since I'm a heavy bullet fan...I can say that I'm impressed with the accuracy. This cartridge looks to be a very satisfactory alternative to my beloved .35 Whelen Improved.

I wonder what the results would be with my equally beloved 4831?
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #3  
Old 07-02-2005, 01:12 AM
Hunterbug Hunterbug is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Where the buffalo roam and the deer and the antelope play, Colorado
Age: 49
Posts: 4,280
Hunterbug is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Didn't you get pretty good groups before with the 160gr Barnes? Barnes is also making a 185gr TSX that you may consider trying. When do we get to see pictures of the rifles themselves? The 200/210gr loads look about the same as before with pretty good speed. That would thump a deer or an elk.
__________________
Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life.


The unarmed man is is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #4  
Old 07-02-2005, 11:16 AM
LLANOJOHN's Avatar
LLANOJOHN LLANOJOHN is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Castell, Texas
Age: 77
Posts: 1,864
LLANOJOHN will become famous soon enoughLLANOJOHN will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Paul,

Practice with it all you want.......its "your" rifle until I can get yours to ya! Before you send it back I sure wish you could locate a black bear or a caribou for a final field test.

Great work, pardner! I certainly appreciate all your efforts and tiime you have spent doing the range work. I feel we have a winner this time around. If you would, please give a "tie up the loose ends" summary.

Ol' John...
__________________
Life Member-NRA-TSRA
Riflesmith-Bolt & Lever Centerfires Only
Left-Hand Creek Rifles
Mark Twain was right-"There is no such thing as too much good whiskey!"
My best advice.."Best to stay outta trees and offa windmills!"
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #5  
Old 07-02-2005, 01:21 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 68
Posts: 19,104
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

A couple of apologies are in order I guess.

First to HB - Picture coming next post.

John - I did say I was sending that summary didn't I? I'll get it together this weekend - hopefully.

Jay - I thought about 4831, as I really like it too. However, John worked the preliminary load data up on Load From A Disk, and I wanted to stay with John's initial data. Also, I've been interested in trying Vihtavouri powders for some time, and this project gave me an excuse. Finally, I get confused easily. I have to stick to simple plans, and using multiple powders while working up a load often "gives me a headache" . I am going to try some 4831 though.

HB - I love the Triple Shock idea - I hate the prices. It's not exactly the price itself, it's the fact that I KNOW they don't cost Barnes any more to manufacture them, but Barnes wants 50% more outta my pocket. Until the prices come down to the level of their other bullets - which are over-priced as well - I'll be watching TSXs. It's a "principle" thing. (Sometimes AKA "cutting off your nose to spite your face." )

The $34/50 I have to pay for the 185 coated "X" has kept me from using them personally. I wouldn't even know about them if it hadn't been for the fellow that wanted me to work up loads for him using those specific bullets. (I tried to get him to go with the 200 CT Ballistic Silvertips or the Nosler 210s, but to no avail. ) If I was planning to hunt brown bears with the MAI, maybe I'd part with the cash for the 185 "X", just for the extra speed. But I really like the Nosler 210 Partition, and 210 is right at the delivered-power optimum on the 'sweet-spot' graph for the .338 WM. It would come down to which one delivered the most energy at 200 yds and less in the MAI.

Also, yes I did get better groups last time I shot the 160s, but, 1) not that great, and 2) inconsistency 'spooks' me. Maybe I'll try the 160s and 175s with 4831.

I too think the MAI is an excellent choice for deer and elk, but actually, I think it's an excellent choice for just about anything North American... with the possible exception of prairie dogs and ground squirrels.

Paul
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #6  
Old 07-02-2005, 04:58 PM
sav17's Avatar
sav17 sav17 is offline
Senior Family Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: s.wales U.K
Age: 62
Posts: 770
sav17 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Hi Paul,

looked at a few of your range reports now,and I am becoming increasingingly fascinated by your graphs and formulae,you obviously have an extensive knowledge of physics.Only problem is I just cant seem to fathom them out,would it be really complex for you to maybe explain the ground rules for the formulae to me.I am not a total nugget when it comes to science and engineering,but I really struggled to make sense of the equations.I would really appreciate it if you could steer me towards the next level
Thank you,your friend......................................Richie
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #7  
Old 07-02-2005, 05:50 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 68
Posts: 19,104
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Love to Richie, just let me know where you wanna start. I will add, that the purpose of including the equations was so that those that wanted to, could check my work and assumptions. It was not to impress. To be honest, you and M1Garand are the first to express much interest. I was about to quit showing that stuff at all, figuring nobody was particularly interested, or saw little value to it. That's not a whine. There are lots of "things" I'm interested in that other folks, very nice and reasonable folks, are not interested in. So goes the way of things.

Anyway, be glad to walk through the process. Just let me know where you want to start.

Since I promised HB "next post", here's the picture of John's MAI.

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MAI Pictures 001.jpg (20.0 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg MAI Pictures 002.jpg (42.6 KB, 122 views)
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #8  
Old 07-02-2005, 06:09 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 68
Posts: 19,104
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Maybe a brief explanation about the graphs above is called for.

The circles that represent the bulet holes are placed according to x and y coordinates I derive from a digital image of the target and an image processing package I use called Image Pro. It's primarily for use by those working in pattern recognition and image analysis. Using the windage, elevation and Point-of-Aim coordinates for the shots, I can make the graph, and calculate a variety of statistics. My primary interest is in prediction. Therefore, I want to know, for myself, where the next shot is most likely to go. There are some fairly standard mathematical manipulations that produce Prediction intervals around a specific distribution of observations of a random variable. In English, that simply means that using the statistics about the shot placement, I can statistically predict the most likely place the next shot, or the next 100 shots will hit. The circle drawn around the group is the 95% Prediction ellipse. Based on this sample only, there is a 95% probability that the next shot will land within that circle. Put another way, if I shoot 100 more shots, 95 of them are most likely to fall within that circle.

In a separate thread, I'll use the summary I'm making up for John as a vehicle for explaining the processing I go through in analyzing range data.

I'll let John give you the scoop on the components of the rifle. The white 'dot' you see in the lower image is the connector to the pressure strain gauge.

Paul
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #9  
Old 07-02-2005, 10:48 PM
gitano's Avatar
gitano gitano is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Age: 68
Posts: 19,104
gitano is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

Sometimes, I'm just stoopid.

I was reviewing the first range session with the 160 Barnes, and it was obvious as the nose on my face that the bullet didn't "like" anything less than a 60 grain charge. However, in my haste to prepare for the most recent range session, I loaded them with 59 grain charges. Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid. I'll be back at the range tomorrow with 160s charged with 60 grains of N-150. We'll see how that goes.

Paul
Reply With Quote

Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI
  #10  
Old 07-03-2005, 09:29 AM
Alboy's Avatar
Alboy Alboy is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near the duck pond in Katy Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 4,160
Alboy will become famous soon enoughAlboy will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Probably the final range report from AK on the .338 MAI

It's OK Forrest.

I liked the Star Trek statement from Kirk to Spock in the one where they bring whales from the past to save the planet. This is paraphrased, " I would rather have a wild guess from you tha reasoned fact from others." or something like that.

Sending you a PM by the way.
__________________
Alboy
BLACKPOWDER WATERFOWLER
KATY TEXAS PRAIRIE

THIS TOO SHALL PASS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
.338 caliber, .338 mai, load work-up, range report, targets


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Range Report on .375 x .284 Win gitano RELOADING 38 10-23-2008 10:21 AM
.338 MAI Range Report gitano RELOADING 3 07-04-2008 11:52 AM
Range Report sakorick RELOADING 5 06-27-2008 11:38 PM
Range report Brithunter RELOADING 8 09-03-2006 03:10 PM
Range Report.... Gmoney RELOADING 10 08-23-2006 11:28 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:15 AM.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.