Hello all. As a new Parker Hale owner this forum has provided a wealth of knowledge. I hadn't heard a great deal about PH rifles, but based on all your comments it seems like they can be quite good firearms.

I have recently been given a bolt action .243 safari deluxe. While there seems to be no model number stamped on it the transfer papers stated that it was a model 1100.

Seeing how it shoots may be a little while off at the moment as upon squeezing the trigger no shot is fired. The firing pins falls OK but doesn't even touch the primer on the chambered cartridge. I checked with the previous owner (a friend) who said that although it has been a while since he has used it he has put a few hundred rounds through the rifle.

Another issue is that the safety doesn't seem to work as expected. It seems that on closing the action ready to fire the ccocking piece is not held back far enough for the safety to be rotated from the left hand position into the straight up or right hand position. I can get the safety to rotate around to the other positions if I remove the bolt from the action and pull the ccocking piece back further.

Having read up on this and some mauser forums it seems that PH rifles use a K98 action - does this mean for the safety the left position is fire, straight up is maintanance (firing pin blocked but bolt can be worked) and the right position is firing pin and bolt blocked? On my rifle the straight up and right hand positions are around the other way.

I have a few photos that would show this - what is the best file size to attach?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Having read a few more threads I have just checked the markings stamped on the barrel. What I think brithunter calls the proof mark on this rifle is stamped on the top of barrel just in front of the receiver. Two lances, with an "N" at 9 o'clock, a "2" at 6 o'clock, and a "B" at 3 o'clock. No circles or anything else on this proof mark.

The rifle has a blued 2 stage trigger, a schnabnel (?) fore-end, flip up rear sight, black plastcic pistol grip cap with whiteline spacer and a red/brown colored Bisley brand recoil pad with black plastic spacer that have been somewhat butchered with what looks like an beltsander.

I noticed a similar looking rifle on the last page of the Parker Hale unveiled thread - a .270 or .243 owned by a bloke from South Africa. Thoughts wre that it was from the early 1960's.

Hopefully a few photos will attach. Really looking forward to some feedback on the non-firing issues as I am very keen to see how it shoots!

Hello Branx. Have you disassembled the bolt? Sounds like the shroud is not fully seated. Mauser bolts are very simple and you should be able to find the problem with careful inspection. Keep us posted. Regards, Rick.

Welcome to THL Branxhunter.
 
Without further info, I would agree with Rick's diagnosis regarding the firing pin, but I'm not sure about the safety. Maybe the same problem - namely the shround not fully tightened. If the shroud isn't fully on, it should be easy to turn it clock-wise, thereby tightening it. Nothing more than your hand should be required. I'll hafta try this on one of my 98s to see if I can duplicate the problem.
 
Paul

Thanks for the welcome Rick and Paul. Having now read the entire PH unveiled thread and most of the other ones it looks like if you want to know anything PH related THL place to be. Probably the only drawback is that most of the photos make my old .243 look very agricultural - there are some very nice rifles on display here!
 
Now, I have dissassembled the bolt, soaked the bolt housing in solvent, cleaned all the components up, lightly oiled and reassembled. I followed a coupled of clips I found on youtube for M98 bolts which were very good.
 
I agree that it seems like the shroud is not fully tightened, however on reassembly the bolt seemed to go together as expected - rotate until it clicks and cannot be rotated any further. The attached photos show the bolt in ccocked, safety on and fired modes.
 
Regards, Marcus

Very good pictures. Is the bolt functioning properly now? From your pictures, the bolt looks normal with the exception of the sporterized safety. If the bolt is not working properly, I could mail you a military safety and you could try the bolt with it. The tip of the firing pin is OK....right? The trigger adjustment may be too light also....when cocked, how light is the trigger pull. It should not be set less than 2 pounds. Also check how high the sear sticks up in the bottom of the action when the rifle is assembled. Compare yours to these pictures...if it isn't sticking up far enough you will need to add a shim between the stock and the rear action screw base. Regards, Rick.

Despite having dis-assembled and re-assembled the bolt 2 or 3 times the firing pin still does not impact the primer of a chambered cartridge when the trigger is squeezed (issue 1) nor does can the safety be engaged by rotating clockwise from the left hand fire position (issue 2).
 
The tip of the firing pin looks OK, but will take a photo this afternoon and post to the forum.
 
I assume that your comments about the trigger pull and the height that the sear sticks through into the bolt raceway are made on the assumption that on pushing the bolt forward on a chambered round it isn't actually ccocking. It does seem to be ccocking, with the firing pin falling on squeezing the trigger. While I have the rifle taken apart this afternoon I will tak photos of the sear projecting into the bolt raceway as well.
 
I have tried to think through some of the potential causes, however as I don't have a good knowledge of the intricacies of how mauser actions work I might be a bit off course. Here goes:
 
Issue 1. Firing pin not impacting the primer of a chambered cartridge
 
Dirty bolt internals causing firing pin to hang up? Probably not as have soaked and cleaned the bolt body and looks clean.
 
Bent firing pin? Not sure. After dis-assembling the bolt I checked this out; it looks straight. Inserting the firing pin into the bolt body without the spring, shroud and ccocking piece shows that the firing pin does extend through the face of the bolt OK - I was just thinking that I should check this without the spring but with the shroud and ccocking piece in place to make sure the firing pin is lined up at the rear end. Will check later today and let you know.
 
Firing pin too short for bolt body? Now this is where I potentially start to show my ignorance regarding mauser actions. How likely is it that some bolt components have been mixed up? Are there different length bolts (and therefore firing pins) available for these actions?
 
Issue 1 & 2. Firing pin not impacting primer and safety not able to be engaged
 
Sporterized ccocking piece? Now this really shows my ignorance. This alternative came to me because of the non-activating safety. Could the length of firing pin travel have been shortened by replacing the original cocking piece with one that has a shorter length rail along the bottom, reducing the distance between the lug that the trigger sear engages and the front face of the ccocking piece cylinder? A shorter firing pin fall may reduce the momentum of the firing pin (assuming that the bolt and firing pin are designed so that upon impacting the cartridge primer the firing pin "bounces back" so that it does not extend beyond the bolt face). This might mean that there is not enough momentum to drive the firing pin far enough forward to impact the cartridge primer.
 
Thanks for the offer a a military safety to try - I'll take a raincheck on that one for the moment. Should be able to source one from close by - if I have no luck I might take you up on your offer. Assuming I get the whole firing issue sorted is there a low "scope-friendly" safety that could be used? I notice that your action shown in the phots seems to have a timney trigger. I intend to replace the existing 2 stage trigger with a Timney unit - perhaps a model with the safety built in would be a good fix?
 
Phew! Some food for thought!

There actually may be a different problem. I didn't want to bring it up until the other potential problems were eliminated. First however, there is one simple measurement that need to be made. PLease measure the protrusion of the firing pin. It should be something on the order of 0.06 to 0.08". If it is not that is the problem.
 
If it is, the firing pin spring could be weak. I had this problem in a Turk .38. It's easy to rectify by buying a new spring. If the spring is weak but the protrusion is within specs, there will be a dimple in the primer.
 
If those aren't the problem, you should check the chamber. This rifle may not be chambered in the cartridge you think it is. If it has been Ackley Improved or otherwise modified to where the chamber is longer from bolt-face to shoulder, it could cause the problems (not firing) that you mention.
 
As for the safety issue, I'm unclear. However, the not firing issue is the primary problem that needs to be addressed.
 
Paul

Well I pulled the bolt out again to check the protrusion of the sear (looks OK) and was contemplating pulling the bolt apart again to check a few things about the firing pin. Instead of pulling the ccocking piece back by hand to enable the safety to be rotated around to block it I just absent-mindedly rotated the shroud clockwise and hey presto! Firing pin protruding from bolt face as described by Paul. Funny how things can turn out to be so simple when you approach them in a different way. Hats off to Rick and Paul  on correctly diagnosing from the start.:bowdown:Here lies the lesson - double or triple check the simple explanation before trying to complicate things!
 
Down the paddock with some cartridges that came with the rifle and a very satisfying little session using the open sights. Can't wait for the base and scope mounts I have ordered to turn up so I can mount the old K8 Weaver I inherited from my father and see how it shoots. Might also order some true oil and a new recoil pad and get stuck into that stock over Easter.......
 
Oh yes, and the safety is working again too. The rotation from the fire position to safe is only approx 20 degrees or so, with no way to rotate through to a maintenance position. I can live with that. When I was given the rifle I was told the safety didn't work so may have been in this condition for a while.
 
Now the receiver has the thumb cut-out in the left-hand wall and the cut-out at the top for a stripper clip. Combined with the 2 stage trigger, could it be assumed that the rifle dates from the early 1960's?

OK, now we are getting somewhere!:D  For starters, it was worth the trouble as now you are a Mauser bolt expert! Once you study the parts and functionality, work on these is a snap. Gunsmith schools always start their students out on Mausers because they have been copied even to this day....to wit the new Remington Mod 798. You rifle is probably a mid 50's version....I wished Brithunter was around....he could tell you for sure. He was supposed to send me a couple Parker Hale trigger assemblies but I haven't heard from him in awhile. I would wait for him to reemerge and we'll find you a PH trigger.....the bold and timney triggers need smith work and the PH triggers drop right in. You will also need to cut a channel in the stock for the safety.....no big deal. You will also need an FN shroud which could be left blued or polished like the M1200. That said, if it were mine, I would leave it just the way it is. In the mean time we would like a range report! Regards, Rick.

Sidebar. Those rifles were made when scopes like the Weaver K4 were very small. so the bolts were forged accordingly. If you mount a modern standard sized scope on that rifle, You will probably have bolt clearance issues and rear sight clearance issues. Find a small scope with a small OL front and rear(compact scope).

Hmmm. Hadn't thought about sourcing a PH trigger. I was always going to wait until I had shot it with a scope before making the decison on whether a replacement trigger would be needed.
 
I think the rifle has had a scope on it in the past - it did come with two piece bases; I have seen similar ones in some of the theads so assume they are PH. They have been taken off to try and source another type of base as when mounted they were skewed when compared against each other (ie looking acorss the top of the bases from the rear the top surfaces were not both horizontal).
 
It looks llike the inner curve on the top of the bolt has been ground back slightly to clear a scope as the BNP stamp near the root of the bolt is half gone.
 
If BH does emerge he might also be interested in some BSA parts that are currently advertised on a website over here: www.usedguns.com.au There is also a PH 1200 in .22-250, a PH .243 and a .243 Midland on the same site.

The rear base should be taller than the front base on all Mauser actions including FN, Mauser 98 and 96 both large and small ring. PH didn't make bases so they are probably Leupold or Burris. Regards, Rick.

Quote from: Branxhunter;91609Hmmm. Hadn't thought about sourcing a PH trigger. I was always going to wait until I had shot it with a scope before making the decison on whether a replacement trigger would be needed.
 
I think the rifle has had a scope on it in the past - it did come with two piece bases; I have seen similar ones in some of the theads so assume they are PH. They have been taken off to try and source another type of base as when mounted they were skewed when compared against each other (ie looking acorss the top of the bases from the rear the top surfaces were not both horizontal).
 
It looks llike the inner curve on the top of the bolt has been ground back slightly to clear a scope as the BNP stamp near the root of the bolt is half gone.
 
If BH does emerge he might also be interested in some BSA parts that are currently advertised on a website over here: www.usedguns.com.au There is also a PH 1200 in .22-250, a PH .243 and a .243 Midland on the same site.

Hi There,
 
     Doh sorry rick I had forgotten all about those triggers. I have one in hand and just phoned about a couple more and will get them shipped to me next week.

     Oh P-H did make mounts and bases. The later ones were alloy but early one were steels and they even made some with windage adjustment in the rings.

   Now P-H didn't start making these Mauser action sporting rifles until 1962. It states so in their 62A catalogue and it came about after thei move to the old BSA Sparkbrook factory due to city centre re-development and the new roads being built. Their original premisis were demolished to make way for this. Of course finding loads of Mauser actions in storage at Sparkbrook might have something to do with this. War reparations you know which the govenment had forgotten all about it seems. This is hear say from an old gunsmith I was talking too and who does some work for me on my rifles that are beyond my meagre skills.

  The first rifles P-H made on these actions even used the std Mauser triggers anf this continued up into the 1980's as my 1100M in 458 WM has a std Mauser trigger and that's from 1984.