Making Another .416x348 Win

Started by gitano, May 14, 2018, 08:42:38 PM

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gitano

That butt is 'extra' long for the finishing. BUT... the finished stock, with recoil pad, will be near that length. Length of pull will be between 14.25" and 14.5". That's my personal "standard length". All of my custom stocks are at least 14.25". That's ANOTHER whine I have to endure with stock-makers: "That's too long. Are you sure you want it that long? It will cost extra to make it "extra long"." Why can't people just DO THEIR JOB! It's fair and reasonable to ask if one got the number right. But @#$%^&*! when I say "YES!, THAT IS THE LENGTH I WANT", that SHOULD be the end of the conversation, AND I shouldn't get CHARGED EXTRA for doing NOTHING. Just another example of why I try to do everything I can to avoid the "experts" in the firearms industry!

I'll climb down from that hobby-horse.

Most stock-fitters suggest that the first thing one can do to check for the "right" length of pull is put one's finger on the trigger, and rest the butt on their forearm. The end of the stock should lie in the crook of the elbow. FOR ME, that means an LOP of AT LEAST 14.25". I actually prefer 14.5".

I need to find a recoil pad that gets close to the cross-sectional profile of this butt. I'm toying with the idea of a skeletonized metal buttplate like this: https://www.gunsamerica.com/971388914/Skeletonized-and-engraved-shotgun-butt-plates.htm

BUT... Obviously, that particular design won't work on a rifle with a 7/8ths inch bolt hole in it. However, there are designs that cover bolt holes. That's not the real problem: The REAL problem with a skeletonized butt plate is RECOIL. And in this rifle, that's no small matter.

So... The final LOP will be somewhere between 14.25 and 14.5. I hope to find a GOOD recoil pad that will fit the x-sectional profile of this butt. If I can't, I'll probably MAKE a skeletonized metal buttplate in yet another exercise in I HAVE TO MAKE IT MYSELF IF I WANT TO GET WHAT WANT.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

sakorick

That pad might be a problem. Decelerators don't have much extra rubber to sand down. When you it to the aluminum it's too late to save the pad and they only make them in small, med and lg.
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

QuoteThat pad might be a problem.

Yup.

I've got a great pad that I bought for this project, but it's too long (comb to toe). Too much to grind off at the toe. This is the pad: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JWEZZU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll keep looking.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

sakorick

Quote from: gitano;151805Yup.

I've got a great pad that I bought for this project, but it's too long (comb to toe). Too much to grind off at the toe. This is the pad: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JWEZZU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll keep looking.

Paul

Paul, they make that in a small which just might be the ticket....call brownells tomorrow and give them the measurements and they can tell you if the small will work. I used the medium on my 35W at it worked perfect.....got to get the stock out of the tin foil now. Later.....
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

#79
I'll call Brownells, but I'm not holding my breath. The birch butt is 1.625" wide at the widest.

Paul

PS - Don't need to call Brownells. I got the Lyman catalog, and there are several that will work. When I pick one, I'll post it here. I intend to make the pad I have in hand "work" for the persimmon butt.
Be nicer than necessary.

gitano

I have to keep reminding myself that this is the practice stock, and not to get too 'into' getting anything butt the shape and fitting "right"! I'm not going to concern myself with getting a recoil pad for it. If I need to shoot it with the birch stock on it, I'll jury-rig something.

Therefore, it's "finished" for now. Here are some pictures (with scope mounted) in which I try to show the quality of the wood. (I fail.) As I said before, this birch is quite nice to work with. It's pretty hard, especially the heartwood, but the sapwood is at least as hard as walnut. This particular piece has really nice 'flame' to it, although that is difficult to 'catch' photographically without expending more effort than I care to.















It really is a pretty stock. I'm hoping the persimmon LOOKS as good as this. I think it will, but it is a very straight-grained wood, and there will be no 'flame' in it. You've seen the persimmon forearm. It looks great. I'm hoping the butt does too.

Speaking of "straight grain", have a look a the pictures of just the butt. Especially the right side. You may note that the grain runs perfectly through the wrist. That was no accident.

Final weight is exactly 9 pounds 0 ounces with the scope and NO WEIGHT in the butt. I would add another tube of tungsten 'sand' to this. In the H&R, that added 1lb 10oz, which would bring this one up right near 11 lb. I like that weight.

I'm hunting for the next two weeks-ish, so I won't get to the persimmon until I get back from that effort. I want to have that stock completed and finished for the elk hunt in Utah over Christmas.


Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

sakorick

OK I get it now. Stock looks great!
Talk to yourself. There are times you need expert advice.

gitano

With this butt, it 'comes to eye' perfectly if I were using iron sights. With the scope it's still 'good', but as you can imagine, the cheek-weld is not as firm.

Common sense would dictate that I shoot it with this butt to see how it works so I can adjust the persimmon accordingly. However, I do not intend to shape the persimmon like this one. It will still have a straight wrist, and it will still have that flat right behind the upper tang. That was somewhat serendipitous, but I really like it. It may have a cheek-piece. I haven't decided yet. I would like to shape it like the but of my thumbholes (without the thumbhole), but having already drilled the through-hole, that option may not be available any longer. If that option is not available, I want the comb to come straight back parallel to the line of the bore. Stocks so configured recoil straight back into your shoulder. At recoil, stocks that have significant drop-at-the-heel, (like this one), rotate at the shoulder, pushing the stock up into the cheek and raising the muzzle. The "classic" Remington stock of their Classic Series, and the factory Ruger Number ONEs, (NOT number 3s), have stocks with combs that are parallel to the line of the bore. Have a look at these:


Notice how the comb of the thumbhole stocks I have actually raises as you go from the action to the butt, and how the "recoil line" of the stock is parallel to the bore. That's a big part of why THESE thumbholes are so pleasant to shoot.


Here's the factory Number THREE.

That angle, both of the line of the comb (AKA Drop-at-the-comb), AND the "recoil line" mean that the rifle WILL rotate UP at the point where the stock meets the shoulder, thereby pushing the comb INTO the face of the shooter.

Here's the Remington Model 700 Classic:


I would have lost a bet over whether or not there was ANY drop-at-the-comb on this model rifle, but it kept not 'lining' up in my picture editing so I put a ruler on it.


As you can see, there is a tiny bit of drop-at-the-comb. These rifles are VERY comfortable for me to shoot.

I will be TRYING to mimic the thumbhole design (without the thumbhole or pistol grip.) I don't know if I will be able to do that now that the through-hole is already bored.


Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

Paul Hoskins

Paul, it's all looking real good. I dislike straight grip stocks but that's just me. Maybe you already know it but if a cheek piece is too high at the rear end it makes shooting uphill difficult. I don't think you'll be squirrel hunting with this rifle though. Good luck hunting in Colorado.  ......Paul H

gitano

Quote from: sakorick;151791What's the LOP? It looks pretty long.

Here ya go, Rick. Does this look more properly proportioned? :D


As you can see I got the recoil pad installed. This birch stock set was the 'practice' set, but I don't want another monkey on my back with regard to getting prepared for the buffalo hunt so I decided to go ahead and install a recoil pad on the 'practice' butt. If I get the persimmon stock made in time, great. If not, this one is field-ready. I have not yet added any weight to the butt. As it sits, it is 8lb and 7 ounces. Pretty light for what I have in mind for it in terms of muzzle energy, - probably 4000+ ft-lb - (hence the 1" thick recoil pad). I will be installing a "weight tube" like the one you can see in post #80 in this thread: http://www.thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19857&page=8.

I have to refinish the butt, as it's a fact of life that grinding/sanding the recoil pad to the profile of the butt will remove any finish if there is any. And there was. That's a non-issue though.

So, the Ruger No.2 chambered in .416x348 Win is ready for the buffalo hunt if I decide to use it. I do need to work up a "buffalo load" for it though. I don't anticipate too much difficulty in that endeavor. (You can file that casual comment under "Famous last words".)

I'm sure the new Factory Crimp die from Lee Precision will be here next week, so before long, I should have "buffalo loads" for the .50 Alaskan, Quigley .50-90 Sharps, and this Ruger No.2. (I already have "the" load for the Sako .338 Win Mag. IF it gets called into action.)

As I have said repeatedly before, I made the .50 Alaskan specifically for this buffalo hunt, and therefore I am loathe to use any other rifle until circumstances dictate. However, the truth is that I really LIKE that .416x.348 Win cartridge, and even more so on the Ruger with 28" barrel. The ballistics are really very good for this application! Time will tell if I can 'leave it home' when the season arrives.

Paul

PS - Since you asked: The length of pull is 14.5". With just a shirt on, it's about 3/8ths of an inch short. With a coat on, it comes to eye perfectly for me.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

j0e_bl0ggs (deceased)

Wow! Bought another rifle... Sako .338 win mag, cool!
Turvey Stalking
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gitano

OK smardass. Sauer.:stars: I regularly get the words "Sako" and "Sauer" conflated. Although never the firearms.

Thanks for catching that.

Paul
Be nicer than necessary.

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