Found 50rds of SSS lurking in the back of the ammo safe, & having  never ever fired a round of the stuff before, I thought Id see what all  the fuss was about.

Used my 30 odd yo 10/22, with its original 1 in 16 twist factory barrel,  so wasn't expecting great things with such a slow twist. So I was  surprised to see that the bullets seem to have stabilized  & flew  straight & true.

Group sizes were just measured with a ruler, & while the target  background grid should be 1cm squares, it actually printed them slightly  bigger at 13mm.

I also fired off 10 rounds of SSS at 50yds the other day. The group was  4" below poa, with 7 rounds into 1 1/2", 2 rounds hit 2" lower with 1  round 1/2" below that. Dunno what caused the flyers, though maybe I  rushed the shots as it was near the end of the detail. Will post a pic  if I can find the target.

There's also 2 targets shot with CCI Subs, & CCI Segmented Subs.











Maybe I'm just lucky & my 10/22 with its 1 in 16 twist just likes the SSS ?.

Or maybe, & I suspect the truth of the matter is, that the barrel  was shortened to 13", threaded, & crowned, by that Maestro of the  machine tool !, Guru of the Gun !, Artist at Arms !, that Legend of the  Lathe !, none other than...................................Mr j0e_bl0ggs  !.

What other "Demon tweek,s" he may have done, I shall probably never know.

Nuff said.

You aren't the only (reliable) one that has reported stabilized SSSs from "standard twist" barrels, jaeger88. Drinksgin (deceased) also reported that. I have just never been that lucky with ANY of my .22 rimfires.

Based on my growing experience with subsonic ammo, I'd say those fliers you report are likely NOT 'operator error'. It's darned difficult to put a five-shot group together with MOST, (but not all), subsonic ammo, without one flier. (More than one, and it's a "bad group", not a flier.) My assumptions about WHY that happens is:
 . . . 1) Commercial ammo is charged "automatically". Of course the equipment is good, but there simply HAS to be some variability. Small changes in subsonic charges lead to BIG changes in Point of Impact.
 . . . 2) (Most important in my opinion.) Chamber size. I noted that the rifles that shot the subsonic ammo (all brands) the best were of course the "match" rifles. What ALL of the match rifles have in common with each other and NOT with the non-match rifles, is a tight chamber. (Probably a "match" chamber, wouldn't you say?) I think the "small" match chamber mitigates the variations in MV caused by small changes in charges between individual cartridges.

The above is only opinion based solely on measured groups; no empirical data collected other than MV, group sizes, and chamber dimensions.

Very interesting about the shortened barrel. Of course "over here" you (and joe_bloggs) committed FEDERAL felonies. He committed two: 1) By performing the act of shortening a "rifle" barrel to less than 16", and 2) "possessing" it after he made it. You would be charged with a felony for possessing it. Over here, LE would probably also charge both of you with "conspiracy" because you "conspired to commit a felony" when you discussed doing the work. However, if you took the butt-stock off of it, and called it a "pistol", it would be perfectly legal. So... considering the "logic",  I can't shorten the barrel of a rifle to less than 16" because that makes it "easy to conceal". However, if I make it even SMALLER by cutting off the butt-stock and putting a pistol-grip on it, thereby making it EVEN MORE CONCEALABLE, it's legal. @#$%^&*ing idiots! That said, it would SEEM to ME that shortening a barrel would tend to lead to DE-stabilized bullets, not the other way around. However... one can't (or shouldn't, I should say), argue with reality.

Paul

We can quite legally shorten a rifle barrel down to 12", ( And talk  about it ! ), but the oal of the rifle must be no less than 24" for it  to remain a rifle.  Anything shorter than 24" oal & with a sub 12" barrel , automatically becomes a Section 5 weapon which ( with exceptions ),  would be illegal.

Need to try the SSS in my other Green Mountain barreled 10/22, & my Mauser 201 Luxus, to see if they like it as well.

When  I was shooting the SSS, a bystander asked if my 10/22 was in fact a  flintlock !, as there was quite a bit of burning powder coming out of the  ejection port.

I would guess that the heavy 60g bullet combined with an old & weak recoil spring, would cause the  bolt to open a bit early.

This would surely have an adverse effect on the MV, by both lowering it, & making it less consistent. Which you would think combined with the short barrel, would have an adverse effect on accuracy ?.

For "us", anything shorter than 26" is a "Short-barreled rifle" (regardless of barrel length), and requires special licenses and fees. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A PISTOL, for which, there are no length constraints. Eedjits!

QuoteWhen I was shooting the SSS, a bystander asked if my 10/22 was in fact a flintlock !, as there was quite a bit of burning powder coming out of the ejection port.

I would guess that the heavy 60g bullet combined with an old & weak recoil spring, would cause the bolt to open a bit early.

Interesting!

QuoteThis would surely have an adverse effect on the MV, by both lowering it, & making it less consistent. Which you would think combined with the short barrel, would have an adverse on accuracy ?.

All of this combined AND gyroscopically stable! Amazing!

Paul

Perplexing indeed, everything seems to be against decent accuracy with this ammo/barrel/rifle combination.

Have 10/22's had a 1 in 16 twist barrel as standard from day one ?.
Seems unlikely a "rogue" fast twist barrel could found its way onto this rifle 30 odd years ago.

Will check the twist.

I too doubt that the twist is 'wrong'. When it comes to rifles we get 'over the counter', sometimes they're just a gem. I try not to look those gift horses in the mouth.

Paul
PS - I found the SSS to be 'a bit much' for small game smaller than fox. The problem is that it REALLY penetrates, but doesn't 'knock 'em down' unless you hit them in the head or elsewhere in the central nervous system. The very first shots I took using the SSS was at a target that had a piece of 5/8th inch siding made of very hard "pressboard", backed by a 2x6. The SSS went through both (SIDEWAYS) at 25 yards like a hot knife through butter. I was VERY impressed. Thinking they would be great for rabbits/hares, I took the rifle and SSSs to Colorado for shooting rabbits and hares after an elk hunt. Hunterbug was acting as guide, and he and I got after some rabbits and hares one afternoon. If I didn't hit them in the head, they ran far enough to make it to their burrows. On the other hand, the ones HB shot - head or body - were 'dead right there'. He was shooting "high velocity" ammo. What I realized was that the SSS was going right through them without "shocking" them. I was disappointed. Some time after that, I shot a big dog fox through the heart with the SSS, and he died within 10 yards of the shot. The SSS is a bullet for PENETRATION. Its subsonic 'voice' is a better focus than its effectiveness as a small game (squirrel and rabbit) bullet. I would like to see a .22 RF supersonic 60-grain bullet. It shouldn't be difficult to get it to 11 or 12 hundred f/s.

Since you are a fox hunter, you might consider the SSS - IF you find it precise enough for your hunting circumstances.

Paul

Wholeheartedly agree !.

Bit of an update in testing the Aguila SSS in my 16" Green Mountain barreled 10/22 & Mauser 201 Luxus.

Range is 25yds, (indoors) shot off the bench, with a Harris bi-pod at the front & a sandbag at the back.

Neither rifle stabilized the SSS, but at least the Ruger produced a bit of a group.

Top left group is 10 rds of Eley Club, 0.231" center to center.
You can see a bit of a splash of lead where the SSS's have gone a bit sideways. (This target printed out a tad bigger than it should, the squares are 13mm x 13mm).
I dont make a habit of using pink targets, the printer was low on ink !. Honest !.



The Mauser that I thought may shoot well with the SSS, just didn't stabilize them at all. The 5 round group is 2.274" center to center.



I dunno what "Alchemy" j0e_bl0ggs breaths on my 10/22's, but considering he doesn't like them much, the GM barreled one produces better groups with Eley Cub, than my bolt action Mauser does with Lapua Midas, & the shortened, standard barreled one shoots SSS pretty good.

Impressive 10-shot groups! And impressively CONSISTENT! Makes the SSS group from the same rifle look 'unimpressive' to say the least! The 'no fliers' from all of those 10-shot groups is both impressive and noteworthy. Unfortunately, ELEY ammo over here costs $19.99 for a box of 50. Of course, were I a competitive shooter, I suppose I'd pay that price for that level of precision. Of course, as a hunter, it would make head-shots on squirrels almost a certainty at at least 25 yds.

The one 5-shot 'pattern' with the SSS from the Luxus is a bit scattered compared to the groups I shoot with the UNstabilized SSS, but that level of key-holing is what I see most, (but not all), of the time. I have a rifle or two that might shoot 2 out of 5 with just a hint of key-holing, and the others clearly key-holed.

Paul

Unfortunately Paul, my shootings not always that consistent, though "I have my moments", when everything come's together.

I'm not sure if I should be pleased or disappointed that my 10/22 can out shoot my Luxus. Though I'm not complaining !.

I really cant account for the lack of fliers in those groups, I usually get them, & I cant remember a guy smelling of Sulfur, getting me to sign a bit of paper in blood, either ?. :devil:

We all like to wine & moan in the UK about the prices of stuff for sale in the US, compared with the inflated prices of the same stuff over here. ( Me included ! ). People tend to forget about the import duty & extra transport costs involved, & a trip to the proof house for guns, & blame it on the dealers making a killing.

Obviously SOME are trying to make a killing, Brownells UK prices for instance, are just a joke.

Rule of thumb says that if something costs $100.00 in the US, it will cost £100.00 in the UK.

Though $19.99 for 50 rds of Club, that costs about £4.90/$6.60 over here, IS extortionate !.

Here's some typical UK 1000 round .22 lr prices. Obviously prices differ from dealer to dealer.

Most of the folks here in the US that whine about bullet and powder prices, haven't a clue how much "you guys" get legged-up "over there" for the same stuff! Talking with my friends in the UK has made me appreciate more how "good" we have it over here. HOWEVER, it ain't the "goodness of the hearts" of the manufacturers that causes American prices to be lower, IT'S THE MARKET SIZE. (And a free-market economic model.)

It's difficult for those not in the US to appreciate the VAST numbers of firearms enthusiasts in the US. I feel quite confident in speculating that if you added up ALL of those that HAVE firearms ownership privileges in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, it wouldn't sum to the number of firearms enthusiasts in the US. We have no less than SEVENTY MILLION gun owners in the US. Most of those own several firearms. The market is simply astronomical in comparison to everywhere else.

Sadly, when Barack Hussein Obama got elected and a buying frenzy ensued, ALL of the manufacturers in the US learned what, for the consumer, was a VERY BAD lesson:

"We can LOWER PRODUCTION AND INCREASE PRICES, AND WE WILL MAKE MORE MONEY!"

Think about it: LOWER PRODUCTION yet INCREASE PROFITS. That's a businessman's "dream". It was a sad day for the American firearms owner. Not because a "disarm-the-populous" president got elected, but because the greedy sons of bachelors that PERVADE BUSINESS (of all sorts), learned that they could reduce production, create a false sense of scarcity and thereby increase demand and PROFIT.

People like to rail against banks and bankers and "industrialists" and "financiers" for their greediness - and rightly so, but those groups can't hold a candle to the ABJECT GREED of of the manufacturers in the firearms-related industries. To add salt to the egregiousness of the wound, they are the consummate hypocrites, howling to high heaven their "innocence" with regard to the artificially created "scarcity" and the commensurate prices they charge for their wares. Poke one of them about it, and after they see they can't get away with their lies, they will try to hide their greed behind the skirts of "we only charge what the market will bear". There may be industries that are AS BIG a liars as those in the firearms manufacturing industry, but there are NONE that are bigger.

I almost cry when I hear what you guys have to pay for powder - EVEN POWDER THAT ORIGINATES IN EUROPE OR SCANDANAVIA, AND American bullets. The difference is that "you guys" are used to "hunting" and "shooting" being a "rich man's sport", and in fact, are moving to a more egalitarian system. We in the US are JUST THE OPPOSITE. The American Hunter has - throughout our short history - been "The Common Man". We are now inexorably - due to the greed of the manufacturers and the @#$%^&*ING stupidity of TOO MANY WITHIN the hunting community - moving in exactly the opposite direction! Hunting in the US is BECOMING a "rich man's sport". The "Obama factor" just accelerated a process that was already underway, with the point of the spear being the "ethicists"- PTOOEY.

Enough ranting, especially since there is NOTHING that will stem the 'slide to Gomorrah'.

Paul

Quote from: gitano;149044snip

I almost cry when I hear what you guys have to pay for powder - EVEN POWDER THAT ORIGINATES IN EUROPE OR SCANDANAVIA, AND American bullets. The difference is that "you guys" are used to "hunting" and "shooting" being a "rich man's sport", and in fact, are moving to a more egalitarian system. We in the US are JUST THE OPPOSITE. The American Hunter has - throughout our short history - been "The Common Man". We are now inexorably - due to the greed of the manufacturers and the @#$%^&*ING stupidity of TOO MANY WITHIN the hunting community - moving in exactly the opposite direction! Hunting in the US is BECOMING a "rich man's sport". The "Obama factor" just accelerated a process that was already underway, with the point of the spear being the "ethicists"- PTOOEY.

Enough ranting, especially since there is NOTHING that will stem the 'sliding to Gomorrah'.

Paul

Nitrochemie - Germany not that far away...:cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: :cens: