These are going work Paul, and work well!


I would have every confidence in using these projectiles. Fantastic work.

I thought you were developing a HUNTING bullet, not a new design paper shredder.
Oh, well.

Very nice.  I cant wait to see pictures of the first game animal you take with this.

Thanks, fellas.

Quote from: RatherBHuntin;124359Very nice.  I cant wait to see pictures of the first game animal you take with this.

Me either! :D

It is remotely possible that it could happen this spring. One of my friends that got drawn for the same caribou I did, hasn't filled his tag yet. I doubt he is going to want to, but there is maybe a 10% chance. If we go, I will take an 8x57 and I might get a chance to put a 'second round' in his caribou if necessary. As you can see, it would require several stars to line up.

Elsewise, the odds are very good for next year. I have permits for two caribou and two moose. At least ONE of those should die from an ANVB.

I would add a couple of comments to the narrative on the second terminal performance test.

Maybe it's obvious, but the reason the box "blew up" is because of the added water. When the bullet hits the wet paper, the water "homogenizes" the energy, spreading it out uniformly in all directions, including rearward toward the shooter. That's what "busted" the front piece of plywood, and what caused the uniform symmetry of the "wound" channels.

This is what is often erroneously called the "hydrostatic" shock wave. The erroneous part is the term "static". When we discuss airplanes flying through the air or bullets moving through the air, we don't say "aerostatics", we say aerodynamics. "Static" means stationary or not moving/changing. "Dynamic" is the opposite; in motion. So the correct term for the wavefront caused by the impact and path of a bullet in a "wet" target is "hydrodynamic" shock wave.

In the dry phone books, the energy of the bullet is "guided" by the first failure of the compressed paper (which is really quite like wood). That's why one sees "splits" in dry media and "craters" in "wet" media.

The "wave" does damage. Quantifying how much damage, and the mechanism of that damage, is very difficult. We can determine the nature of damage IF the amplitude of the wave is sufficient. If it is, a phenomenon call "cavitation" occurs. Cavitation occurs when water molecules are literally torn apart by the pressure differential between the "crest" (high pressure area), and the "trough" (low pressure area) of the wave. If shrapnel doesn't "get ya", cavitation is what "kills ya" in an explosion.

I would cough up the cost of ballistic gelatin if the cost of the gelatin were the only issue, but the reality is that there is A LOT of logistical hassle in being prepared to make, use, and re-use ballistic gelatin. You have to have BIG pots - like 10 gallons MINIMUM - to heat the gelatin in to start with. THEN you have to have LARGE - 12"x12"x24" MINIMUM - molds to pour the gelatin in. You also have to have refrigeration space large enough to hold the gelatin that you have made up and used, and are waiting to 'reconstitute'. It's a BIG deal. Too much hassle for me to bother with UNTIL I wanted to start SELLING a new bullet design.

Paul

PS - With regard to getting these bullets 'blooded' this spring, I completely forgot about spring bear. You can bet an ANVB will be used! God willin' and the creek don't rise, I'll have multiple opportunities to 'test' them on game.

Paul[/SIZE]

Quote from: 22hornet;124354These are going work Paul, and work well!


I would have every confidence in using these projectiles. Fantastic work.

Those are very kind words indeed!

THANKS!

I think this particular thread is nearing it's end. The title is "Making My Own 8mm Jacketed Bullets", and I think for a first pass, that has been accomplished. There remains A LOT of work to do to refine the various processes and to move forward with new ideas like die and tip making. As usual with all of my projects, I relied heavily on the assistance and comments of THL members. I sincerely thank you all for that!

Of course this isn't "the end" of the 8mm bullet making saga, but future posts should probably be put in threads that deal with specific subject matter. This thread can be referenced - maybe it should be "stickied" - in those future threads.

For those of you shooting 8mms of any sort that want to try the ANVB, send me a PM and we will see what we can do. I'm sure "you all" will be able to put more dead animals on the ground - and post threads with pictrres about it - than I can by myself.

Thanks again,
Paul

I'm getting the hang of making these "identical". I just made 40 of them that are 125 grains plus or minus something less than 0.1 grains. I also figured out how to get the printed tips seated well, and without disturbing that really sharp point.



On the left is the 8mm (.323) 125-grain ANVB; in the middle is the Speer .308 130-grain HP; on the right is the Speer 7mm (.284) 115-grain HP.

Paul

So...

After the debacle with the sharp-pointed printed tips, I went looking for two 'things':

1) A good tip, and
2) Some bearing surface.

You may recall that ultimately, I want a large meplatted, light weight, bullet. Since the printed tip wasn't working all that well in its current configuration, I made some "spitzer" (lead-tipped) 125-grain bullets. They weren't particularly satisfying for two reasons:

1) I want a hollow point, and
2) At 125 grains, the bearing surface was only about .250".

While mulling this "point issue" over in my head, it occurred to me that I could simply use another bullet for a point. Since the inside of the 8mm jackets I have are about 0.250", I figured .243 and .257 bullets might just serve as both cores and points. In a fashion, the 8mm jacket could be a kind of 'sabot'.

Here are the first efforts along this line.

First is a Barnes 90 grain Banded Solid I had left over from a penetration experiment my youngest daughter did for school.


Probably the best use I could ever find for these bullets, but in reality exactly what I'm NOT looking for. Not looking for a SOLID for sure.

Next I tried another Barnes bullet, an 80-grain .243 VLC.

This actually might work.

Next was a 60 grain .257 Speer "pistol" bullet.
This is actually the second one of these I made the first one got the placement correct - at the cannelure, but the ejector pin ruined it. This one's tip is OK, but it's not exactly the right position, but you get the idea. With some tweaking, this is another one that might work.


The last one is a 90-grain .257 Speer BTHP. This one might ultimately work, but I'll have to taper the mouth of the 8mm jacket to 1) reduce the overall weight, and 2) fair the jacket mouth onto the .257 bullet.


The point is - pun intended - there MAY be another bullet that I can use as a point for the 8mm jackets.

I also tried a point swaged of aluminum foil. Remember, the point serves only as an aerodynamic fairing. I couldn't care less how "sturdy" it is as long as it can stand up to handling and "wind". Unfortunately, it can't stand up to the ejector pin. I'm still toying with this idea.

The fact is, the ejector pin is a problem. It really boogers the points of everything. Note how the point on the SOLID BRASS Barnes bullet is noticeably blunted.

Finally, I am contemplating using a .22 RF case as a point. I think it might work with the butt in the 8mm jacket and the mouth "out". I'll be trying that tomorrow.

Paul

Couldn't wait...



The Long Rifle case is on the left, the Short, on the right.

They're not pretty, but this was strictly quick and dirty. I think this has real promise!

Paul

See what happens when you have a swaging press?
Just don't mash the fingers!

Good ideas coming there...

Hmmm. A projectile within a projectile? Never thought of that.
I would be very interested in seeing how these go. Expansion from the two projectiles?

Keep it coming Paul.

A projectile within a projectile is really just a sabot. In this case, the 8mm jacket is acting as the sabot. Of course with the .243 bullet, I will be adding some lead to the base of the jacket to provide support for the .243 bullet.

Actually, my interest is most piqued by the .22 RF case points.

Paul

RWS make a similar hunting bullet with a brass 'tip' admittedly not so pointed and also not 'open' at the point.
Found a pic of something similar.




Just got to love the 'marketing' eh?

I have a few of these without the plated jacket.
The Nickel coating would absolutely stop me from using them!

Wow! I thought Barnes was "aggressive"...

Paul

You'd hate to miss intended targets with the price you are paying for those RWS bullets.

Not paying anything for them. Not actually buying them either!