Quote from: gitano;124427that said, an 85-grain 7mm has a certain appeal to me.
 
Paul

:mogrin:

Paul,
I know you have expressed disappointment in the performance of your wife's 7X57 on game in the past.
Maybe this upcoming 7MM version of the ANVB could improve your perception when loaded in the X57 case too.
@115gr or less, 3k FPS should be achievable, and with that large open HP, the results should improve as well.

Possibly, Jamie.270. The 'problem' with the 115-grain bullet in the 7x57 is the low BC. The common range at which caribou were shot where my wife and I used to be able to hunt was "100s" to "long 200s". The "100s" aren't a problem, but "long 200s" were, in my mind. I don't have any data on terminal performance from the 7x57 out that far because I never loaded any to 'test' them. I never loaded any because I don't like to have novice hunters performing 'tests' in the once-a-year game field, and I wasn't interested in performing the test myself. It is entirely possible that the 115 would have "worked" out beyond 200 from the 7x57, but I didn't have the confidence that it would.

My hesitancy wasn't 'random neuron firing'. There was first-hand experience with other 7mm bullets, and the consistency of that experience with published reports from reputable sources.

The first-hand experience - as you know - was the 100% consistency of the animals running at least 100 yd after being "perfectly" shot - right behind the shoulder, double lung. The shots were ALL - that'd be 100% - pass-throughs. For what I read from Africans, that's exactly what they want. Those pass-through are one of the reasons why they 'love' the 7x57 so much. While I don't care about pass-throughs one way or the other, I HATE 'running' animals. 'Running animals' occur much more frequently with pass-throughs.

So the combination of repeated personal experience with the 7x57 and what I read being consistent with my personal experience, I've developed a 'distaste' for the 7x57 cartridge for Alaska and novices. I still appreciate the cartridge for smaller sized big game, and especially those big game animals taken from a blind at relatively close range (150 and less). The "bottom line" is unfortunately that I have little confidence in the cartridge's ability to deliver "dead right there" energy, and confidence in one's weapon is a very important aspect of Hunting.

Maybe a 'properly' built bullet - light weight, thick jacket, large meplat, and plastic tip for good BC - would change my level of confidence in the 7x57 as a 150-yd-and-longer caribou, black bear, moose cartridge. If I get a 95-grain-or-less 7mm ANVB made, I'll give it a try in the 7x57.

Paul

I just "made" a 115-grain 7mm ANVB on paper, calculated the BC (.335) and did some QuickLOad paper-whipping. The results were encouraging.

The bullet carries 1500 ft-lbs out to 280 yards, and more than 2300 f/s velocity out past 300 yards, with the 300-yd energy at 1435 ft-lbs.

That suggests "good" - no 'running' - performance on caribou out to 300 yards. The difference is the BC. The Speer 115-grain bullet has a BC of .250. Changing that to .335 makes the difference. Of course that 'theoretical' BC would have to be checked for reality, but if reality turns out to be close, the 7x57 with an ANVB might come out of my cartridge 'doghouse'. Put less dramatically, I might get the confidence to load it for my wife for caribou hunting.

In comparison, in the theoretical 7mm RM (strictly QL, no real chrono or pressure data), the 115 grain Speer carries 1500 ft-lbs to 260 yards and has an impact velocity of 2289 f/s with an energy of 1338 ft-lbs at 300 yd. That level energy delivery has 'worked' just fine on sheep at 220+ yards. At 220 yards the impact velocity is 2563 f/s and the energy is 1677 ft-lbs.

In the REAL 7x300 Weatherby with actual chrono data, that bullet has "worked" - dead right there - on caribou out to 319 paces. Assuming the paces were equal to yards, the impact velocity was 2183 f/s and the impact energy was 1216 ft-lbs. BUT... while the caribou didn't "run", it didn't "flop" either. The first shot prevented it from 'leaving', but it required a second shot to drop it. "Acceptable", but not the "bang flop" that I am used to with this rifle and cartridge at shorter ranges. (I have actually measured - on several occasions - my ability to pace off distances, and on a $100 bet and a half mile air-strip I was 3 yards off. That's 6 feet out of 2640. All I had to be was within 10 yds to win the bet.

Paul

I think with the popularity of the 7MM RM since the '60s, the available offerings in .284 have been constructed to suit the velocity of that cartridge over the lesser capable 7X57 and 7-08.

It sounds (reads) like your ANVB could be just the ticket to bring the 7Mauser back into your good graces. :D

I have pretty much dismissed using Speers 115gn HP in my .280 British because of the low BC. Because of the small case I don't have a lot of velocity to work with. I decide to try Hornady's 120gn V-max first. A much higher BC and I'm hoping that it will work just as well.

Jamie.270 - You may be right about that. I'll have to look into that possibility.

22hornet - I think that is a wise choice. I'm sure you've read my opinion of the 115 Speer for the 7x57, and I wouldn't expect performance in your .280 Brit to be any better. I think the 120 V-Max is an excellent choice.

Paul

PS - A preliminary QuickLoad paper-whip suggests you can get 1250+ ft-lbs at an impact velocity of 2170+ f/s at 300 yd. Pretty good performance from such a 'dinky' case.

OOPS. I forgot your barrel length is 19". I'll redo it and correct the chart below.

Impact velocity still exceeds 2000 f/s, and with that bullet, that will ensure terminal performance per the bullet's design.

Paul, Am I really going to get 2700fps from a 120gn projectile in this little case? That is way beyond what I am expecting.

Keep in mind that this is "paper-whipping". I have the cases you sent, and I can work up pretty good input information for QL. Once you settle on a powder, AND you tell me what you want the pressure ceiling to be - I used 52,500 PSI for this exercise - we can look carefully at some QL output that will likely be pretty darn close.

At this point, I am thinking 2700 f/s is not 'out of reach'.

Paul

PS - QL says that ADI-2206H will get you to 2700 f/s at a max pressure of 52,700 PSI from a 19" bbl, and that's seating the bullet quite deep. If your chamber will allow a 67%-of-caliber seating depth, 2700 f/s can be reached at a chamber pressure of 52,250 PSI.

Paul, I'll email you so as to not hi-jack your thread.

Paul