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-   -   Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns? (http://thehunterslife.com/forums//showthread.php?t=1698)

45-70 Rifleman 01-26-2005 12:04 PM

Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
Please Note: I just posted a reply to Rohann's thread, Military vs LE Rifles, and it got me thinking about this topic. I enjoyed the similar topic about assault rifles. Let me premise things by saying that I am about to present an opinion for the sake of discussion only. Please don't get angry with me because you think I really believe we should outlaw hunting with these rifles. I don't.


Sniper Rifles - Are they hunting guns or just weapons designed and configured for the taking of human life and the destruction of property? Surely the State of California must have be forward thinking to recognize that any firearm firing the 50 BMG round has no sporting purpose and to outlaw such firearms in their state. I submit that ANY rifle designed and configured as a sniper rifle similarly has no sporting purpose especially as a hunting rifle. These rifles are too big and heavy to take to the field. They are designed for shooting at longer ranges than game animals are normally shot at and when used to shoot game at long ranges they often only wound an animal with too much of a head start to track and finish off. Many "sniper" rifles fire non-standard cartidges and super hig velocity ammunition that can travel greater distances that standard ammunition. The danger imposed from missed shots and ricochetes from these specialty rounds is unreasonable.

We should also commend France because many years ago they designated any firearm capable of shooting military ammunition as a military arm, illegal to posess without a special permit and unlawful to use for hunting. The 223, 308, 7mm mauser, 30-06, and 6.5x55 have no place in the hunting fields of France. Firearms shooting these calibers are miltary weapons only designed for killing PEOPLE and should be kept out of the hands of the general population. Because they have no hunting purpose, there is no reason for civilians to own them.

Every state in the USA has hunting equipment rules that limit the caliber of firearm used to take game. They also limit the types of rifles, length, magazine capacity, etc. States should amend these hunting regulations to restrict the use of "sniper" rifles, specialty "sniper" cartridges, and "sniper" ammunition. Limits on weight, barrel length, bipods and tripods, thumbhole stocks and pistol grips, night vision type scopes, scopes of excessive magnification, super magnum and high velocity ammunition, and military slings should be imposed. They have no place in the hunting fields of America and hunting usage should not be used as an argument for civilians to own such firearms and weapons. There are more than ample hunting rifles, cartridges, and rounds of ammunition to choose from without them.

Lost Hunta 01-26-2005 02:33 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
Hmmm well i'm no expert but ummm there are hunting practices which require a high powered scope and calibre. Mountain hunting may require a high mag scope and round nessasary to attain a humane kill on an animal. I for one say there shouldn't be a limit to stocks or barrels or such things. a thumbhole over standard has little difference other than a more comfortable way to hold a gun that's how i merely see it and barrels of sniper rifles and hunting rifles are of little difference other than weight.

Marlin917VS 01-26-2005 04:01 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 45-70 Rifleman
The 223, 308, 7mm mauser, 30-06, and 6.5x55 have no place in the hunting fields of France. Firearms shooting these calibers are miltary weapons only designed for killing PEOPLE and should be kept out of the hands of the general population. Because they have no hunting purpose, there is no reason for civilians to own them.

Every state in the USA has hunting equipment rules that limit the caliber of firearm used to take game. They also limit the types of rifles, length, magazine capacity, etc. States should amemd hunting regulation to restrict the use of "sniper" rifles, specialty "sniper" cartridges, and "sniper" ammunition. Limits on weight, barrel length, bipods and tripods, thumbhole stocks and pistol grips, night vision type scopes, scopes of excessive magnification, super magnum and high velocity ammunition, and military slings should be imposed. They have no place in the hunting fields of america and hunting usage should not be used as an arguement for civilians to own such firearms and weapons. There are more than ample hunting rifles, cartridges, and rounds of ammunition choose from without them.

First I would just like to say I don't think they should outlaw sniper type rifles. I don't see what is wrong with them. With some of the things you listed, they would be taking away a large portion of the guns out there that people hunt with. There is a lot of use for those calibers you listed and many even more powerful ones. What's having a long barrel on a gun, or having a heavy gun, or thumbhole stock, or a high powered scope going to do? Especially the slings, what is wrong with having a military sling on a rifle. I don't want to sound rude, and if I am I'm sorry, I don't mean to but I just don't get it. I agree there is no point in having a 50bmg for hunting, but the other calibers listed? I personally use a 308 and my dad uses a 30-06 for deer. I don't see how these are very excessive. I have a 17hmr with a 6-24x50 scope on it, which I agree is more scope power than needed when hunting, but I use it at the range for shooting groups also. There are varmint hunters out there who use heavy rifles with high powered scopes and bipods that are very similar to sniper type rifles. I just don't get it. I don't see anything wrong with it. Later

Lost Hunta 01-26-2005 05:03 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
Yes, thank you Marlin i've got a hard time trying to say the right thing. I tried to say just as you did but of course i'm wary of insulting ect others so again TY

M1Garand 01-26-2005 05:42 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
I have a limited experience with the M-24 sniper rifle and I'd say that they may be more so than say an AK-47. Most may not want to carry one around if they're hunting elk in the Rockies but they are made for better accuracy at longer ranges, much like a custom rifle. May be fun to use at a prarie dog shoot, pronghorn or other forms of long range hunting.

RatherBHuntin 01-26-2005 06:49 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
Quote:

We should also commend France because many years ago they designated any firearm capable of shooting military ammunition as a military arm, illegal to posess without a special permit and unlawful to use for hunting. The 223, 308, 7mm mauser, 30-06, and 6.5x55 have no place in the hunting fields of France. Firearms shooting these calibers are miltary weapons only designed for killing PEOPLE and should be kept out of the hands of the general population. Because they have no hunting purpose, there is no reason for civilians to own them.
Whewwww, thats a pretty bold statement. It is absolutley pointless to outlaw a round, or ban it from hunting simply because of its pedigree. Why should it be illegal to use a .223 but ok to use a 22-250. Wrong to use a 6.55x55 but ok to use a .260? We could go on and on with comparisons. A round that was designed to KILL is exactly what should be promoted for hunting, a cartridge that is only intended to wound or maim wouldn't be fair to the animals. Limiting general hunting to weak cartridges would cause a lot of suffering. I say those rounds listed shoudl be the foundation of all hunting rounds, because of the same reason you use to ban them.

You would ban stocks, bipods, scopes and night vision. Would you also ban synthetic materials to be used on the stocks. Do you have the same feeling towards the peep sight which has been adopted by the military? How about red dot scopes? I have a vintage type leather military sling on my rifle, why shoudl it be banned?

I am sorry but I completely disagree in the strongest way with these ideas. Was not your very own 45-70 a miltary rifle?

rockinbbar 01-26-2005 07:46 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
I use a sniper rifle alot in my day to day hunting.....Just this morning I killed a coyote that was circling the headquarters here. They find it amusing to circle the place in pairs...often 2-3 pairs at different locations. They messed up today though because I spotted a pair & busted the female as she trotted at 275 yards....That is 2 in a week that have fallen to that "sniper rifle"....

If we ever give the power to the Democrats & anti-gun groups to take away military calibers or scoped rifles, we might as well be poked with a fork, because we are "DONE"....

It is bad enough that the Democrats in California have banned the 50 BMG. Have you heard of a slaughter of school children by a wacko using one of those? While I might be a fan of the weapon, I'd not ban it for any reason.

Our right to keep & bear arms has already undergone surgery by liberal law makers & anti-gun people to the point that it is unconstitutional. When our forefathers drafted the Bill of Rights, it gauranteed the right to bear arms to the American People. The general public was armed as well or better than the military at that time.....You don't see fully automatic weapons in gun cabinets now, nor do you see a Scud Buster rocket launcher parked in driveways across our nation.....What you DO see is Americans losing RIGHTS that we have enjoyed for over 200 years. Not only with guns we use to hunt & protect our families & farms with, but FREEDOM!

Every time some law maker passes a new law we LOSE freedom! Every time some lawyer files a lawsuit, we lose that much more freedom!
When I bought my pick-up truck last year, they entered my name in a data base to check & see if I was a terrorist on the wanted list before they would sell me the truck!
GET REAL!!

45-70 Rifleman, I see why you posted this thread. I want you to know that I will not give up much more freedom. They can take my scoped Police Tactical Rifle after the last of my life-blood has joined the ranks of our hereos that have fallen in battle preserving our rights as American people, and freedom......

Rockinbbar

45-70 Rifleman 01-26-2005 07:58 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
The militaristic, police-state look of the sniper rifles also does a lot to denegrate our sport. People are afraid of these rifles because they associate them with "head shots" and assasinations. If we turn non-hunters against us then all we are doing is helping the anti-hunter's agenda.

There is no reason to hunt with a rifle capable of killing at 1000 yards when it is generally considered unsportsman-like to shoot game much beyond 300 yards. Most deer are shot within only 70 yards.

A 30-340 Weatherby Magnum, for example, delivers three times the energy needed to kill a deer cleanly. The only real purposes for such a cartridge are to kill at such a distance that the shooter cannot be detected or for participation in some type of "long range" shooting event. The only reason a shooter wouldn't want to be detected is because he doesn't want to be caught for someth wrong he has commited, and there is little merit to justifying the use of such a firearm only on the basis of it's usfullness for "long range" shooting events. In any case, it is absolutely out of place for hunting. Long range sniper weapons can be used by criminals and terrorists but even well meaning sportsmen don't realize the long range danger these weapons create when they shoot through an animal and, with lethal velocity, penetrate the bedroom or sleeping bag of an inocently sleeping child half a mile away. Why risk the lives and safety of the masses to allow someone to use something for an unneccesary purpose?

Lost Hunta 01-26-2005 08:26 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
OR maybe he/she needs a Magnum to take a very large-dangerous game? Didn't see that there. It's not like standard Remington 700 and Winchester 70 were ever 'sniper rifles'. Marine snipers used one like Sgt. Carlos Hathcock. I also think that if people relate sniper 'looking' to implements of terror then they need some education i'd say, kinda like how anti-hunting people don't seem to grasp that a animals population needs to be controlled for it's and our benefit either that or they're too blinded by there own ideals to recogize the truth.

p.s. as i recall the Sharps was in 45-70 "Custer's Last Stand"???they had 45-70s of some type

rockinbbar 01-26-2005 08:29 PM

Re: Sniper Rifles - Are They Hunting Guns?
 
45-70 Rifleman,

So you would have us limited to WHAT type of firearm & WHAT caliber? You would also have weapons that "LOOK" a certain way done away with? Get Realistic!

I also think you are very wrong when you refer to hunters as being ignorant of what thier weapons are capable of! Hunters as group are very educted & have a thirst for knowledge of the weapons they use, the skill to use it, the effective range, and the animals they hunt.

So, if I understand you correctly, then you would also ban Weatherby Magums? I guess that leads to Remingtom & Winchester Magnum calibers as well?

I don't know where YOU hunt, but I hunt in an area where the chances of my spent round hitting ANYTHING after it passes through my animal are FAR less than my chances winning the lottery! "Hitting a sleeping innocent child" as you put it is absurd.

The members & administration of this site is dedicated to the family outdoors adventures we can encounter here & around the world. we do not support the "Banning" of any specific type of gun. This is a clean, family oriented website that promotes to the eyes of the public a very favorable view of what goes on in reality with hunters & fishermen, & shooters of ALL types. Long range shooting happens to be one of them. It is a legitimate sport. It is even sactioned by and participated in in the World Olympic Games.

We don't favor your views on gun control, & I might suggest to you that your message to the hunters & sportsmen & women that visit these pages are challenging & inflammatory.

I might also suggest that you might want to educate yourself on the Bill of Rights, Shooting Sports, Hunting, and re-evaluate your freedoms as an American.

Rockinbbar


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