The Hunter's Life

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-   -   Commercial Semi-automatics (http://thehunterslife.com/forums//showthread.php?t=1325)

Muzzleblast 12-30-2004 03:28 PM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
I think it would be kinda hard for a commercial semi from the big makers to lack the accuracy a deer hunter needs. The posts coming in now kinda support what I thought. It' not a sendero, and neither is the average lever or bolt gun. A little discipline will keep a shooter from popping off all his shots just because he can.

Also I believe the average SKS will group as well as the average Mini14...3 moa.

AR-15 type rifles have great potential for accuracy too, as someone has said. Everyone I know who owns one talks of cloverleafing groups. DPMS, Bushmaster, Oly, etc are all accurate rifles. The match or varmint types are even more accurate. My friends in the military shoot 500-600 M with their scoped standard infantry C-7s, the Canadian version of the M-16A2.

firstshot 01-16-2005 10:43 PM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and just had to comment on this thread as I own a Browning BAR in 30-06 that averages 3/4" - 1" CTC groups using 180 Grn Sierra Game Kings, 165 Grn Nosler Partitions and 180 Grn Nosler Partitions, all handloads on top of IMR4831.

Dark squares are 1/2" and light squares are 1/4". The shoot-N-C target is 5 1/2"

180 Sierra Game Kings - 3 Shot Group
http://www.reloadersnest.com/photoal...IMR%204831.jpg

165 Nosler Partitions - 3 Shot Group
http://www.reloadersnest.com/photoal...0Partition.jpg

180 Grn Nosler Ballistic Tips - 3 Shot Group
http://www.reloadersnest.com/photoal...T%20Group1.jpg

I just bought this gun this past spring and the only thing I've done to it is have the trigger worked on. It now has a clean, crisp 2 1/2Lb pull.

I can't speak for other semi-auto's, including other BAR's, as this is the only one I've ever owned or shot, but I would think that you would have to agree that "this BAR at least can hold it's own with any production bolt gun out there.

firstshot

-----------------------------------

make your first shot count!


Muzzleblast 01-17-2005 08:20 AM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
Nice shooting!

Looks like the BAR is worth what you pay for it and then some, I never got the chance to see how one would shoot.

Does more than hang with the average bolt gun.

LLANOJOHN 01-17-2005 10:08 AM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
firstshot,

There are always exceptions to any rule! Your particular rifle is very definitley an "exceptional" firearm.

The family should expect the freezer to be filled at the end of the season.

Ol' John

Jay Edward (deceased) 01-17-2005 10:16 AM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by firstshot
I just bought this gun this past spring and the only thing I've done to it is have the trigger worked on. It now has a clean, crisp 2 1/2Lb pull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstshot

I can't speak for other semi-auto's, including other BAR's, as this is the only one I've ever owned or shot, but I would think that you would have to agree that "this BAR at least can hold it's own with any production bolt gun out there.

firstshot



Boy...the point is pretty well made with accuracy like that (and shooting like that). You've got a real firearm there firstshot.

One item I wish you would record and report back on...the first shot out of a cold barrel...where it prints with regard to the rest of the groups.

firstshot 01-17-2005 01:40 PM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Edward

One item I wish you would record and report back on...the first shot out of a cold barrel...where it prints with regard to the rest of the groups.

Jay

I have found the rifle to be sensitive to barrel heat up with the forearm hanging off the barrel. However, barrel heat up doesn't seem to have any negative effect till you've put 4 or 5 consecuive rounds through her. When shooting for groups, I let it cool a minute or two between shots and then about 5 min between groups. Of course this does not get it back down to "cold barrel" status.

Will definitely start recording a "first shot from cold barrel" group and will report back. Had good intentions of doing just that this past summer, but was more focused on finding "The" hunting load for this season. Wound up going with the 165Grn Nosler Partitions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondoJohn6508

The family should expect the freezer to be filled at the end of the season..

Hodno

Took a nice 8Pt on opening day. He was running (fast trot) left to right at about 75 Yds.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzleblast

Nice shooting!.................Does more than hang with the average bolt gun...

Muzzleblast

Thanks..... As you well know, it takes a MOA capable gun combined with a MOA capable shooter to shoot consistent MOA groups. By no means am I bragging here, I just want to point out that I spent a lot of time working up loads and practicing with this gun. When I first started shooing this gun, the gun & I were grouping handloads in the 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" range. Over time, the gun got better (trigger job), the handloads got better (right bullet/powder combo) and I got better (lots of practice with that gun).

I'm a firm beliver that there are a lot more MOA rifles out there than there are MOA shooters! I know for a fact that my BAR shoots better than I'm able to shoot it. (example Ballistic Tip Group) Funny thing is, the more I practice, including good shooting technique, the more accurate my gun seems to become.


firstshot
----------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

firstshot 01-18-2005 12:02 AM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Edward
So...the same qualities or characteristics apply: accuracy, efficiency, sights, weight, handling characteristics, ease of use, etc.

Is there a difference?

One last thing...when you are considering the different semi-automatic rifles please do not let money come into the equation. We are judging these firearms on their merits and their application to the game fields by hunters who are motivated by rational thought rather than emotional fantasy.

What is wanted overall is your mature judgement more than anything else.

Jay, I went back and found your previous threads on semi-autos, read them in their entirety, and I must say that they were very thought provoking. In retrospect, with the "qualities or characteristics" you've outlined in mind, it seems that my comments to date have been overly focused on "accuracy". With that said, I'll try to explain how/why the other qualities & characteristics of the BAR made it the right gun for me.

I hunt on 2,200 acres of mountainous terrain (just foot hills compared to the Rockies) in NW Arkansas. Over the past year & a half they have logged out the majority of the property, leaving downed treetops every where. In most places it looks like a bomb went off. From an elevated tree stand or climber, shots in these areas could be up to 150Yds but you would still have to pick your shots. When hunting from the ground, most shots would be less than 100Yds, again through the thick brush tops. At the same time, we've got fields, logging roads, power lines, etc. where shots could be out to 300+ Yds.

In my mind, the BAR is perfectly suited to these varied and sometimes demanding hunting conditions.

Sights: My BAR wears a 3-9X40 Burris Fullfield w/Ballistic Plex reticle. Dial her down to 3 when I'm still hunting in the thick stuff and up to 9 when I need it for long range. By the way, the Ballistic Plex reticle works as advertised. At 200 Yds, using the first hash mark, I'm 1/2" low. Haven't got to try the 300Yd hash mark yet.

Weight: The BAR Safari ain't no "mountian rifle" but it's not a boat anchor either. The Safari has a dry weight of 7Lbs 6Oz and weighs in at about 8 1/4Lbs w/scope. I've got a Bonnie Packer sling that does make it an easy carry. The little bit of extra weight also help reduce felt recoil.

Handling Characteristics / efficiency: I like to still hunt and to me, this gun is a natural pointer. When you bring it to shoulder it just seems like the scope is already on target. The gas operating system significantly reduces felt recoil and muzzle jump. Even with heavier loads, I can easily stay on target during & after the shot. Your hands never have to leave the stock and you just keep looking through the scope. When still hunting through heavy brush, this "efficiency" makes for a quick follow up shot (should you need one) with absolutely no waisted motion. The reduced recoil also makes it a pleasure to shoot at the range, where I can shoot 60-75 rounds with no discomfort at all.

Ease Of Use What could be easier that putting the cross-hairs on target and pulling the trigger......more than once if you need to. The hinged floor plate with detachable magazine also comes in handy. On the down side, they do take a little more time to clean, and as far as reloading goes, you do have to full-length resize.

Accuracy See post above.

Sorry for being so long winded.....but hope you can see why I thought the BAR was the right gun for me.

firstshot
----------------------------------
Make your first shot count!

Jay Edward (deceased) 01-18-2005 12:33 AM

Re: Commercial Semi-automatics
 
You sure seem to have thought it out fs...and there are only a few items remaining:

The record of first shots out of a cold barrel.

Your estimate of 'barrel life' and/or gas cylinder life (& cleaning).

Accuracy out to 300 yards.

Effect that placing a bipod on the rifle and shooting and/or resting the rifle on a hard surface (not a sandbag) and shooting to see if the center of your 'group' changes.


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