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View Full Version : You Guys Remember This Rascal?


Jay Edward (deceased)
04-07-2005, 07:04 AM
I think we were discussing who liked atypical and who didn't. I know some of you like all the points but I've been trying to look past all the extra points just at what would be the traditional antlers. They're pretty impressive!

No way to estimate weight, I reckon...but I cannot imagine that he is small.

Where do you figure is the most likely hunting area that a deer hunter would find such a deer? I've always read that it is due to minerals in the food...you think a permanent mutation could possibly occur after a good many generations?

m gardner
04-07-2005, 05:11 PM
The most nontypicals seem to be in the high desert regions where I live. Areas high in minerals. High in uranium too from the evidence of the mining activity from years past. I've never seen one this big but have filmed some 200 class bucks. This may be the year I get lucky though. The antlers seem to get freaky as they get older. The younger bucks have normal antlers usually. In the 6 years I've been in Colorado I've shot one old buck. He was a nontypical, didn't do well in the frying pan though. Since then I've taken young bucks to eat if I couldn't find a monster. That old buck was bigger than the 239 pound dressed whitetail I took in Vermont. He was regressed badly too. It looked as if he broke his skull at the antler base on one side. Probably why the antler on that side was really weird. An old warrior. If I had to guess where this one came from I'd say the Pansaguant or Kaibab. God bless and good hunting.

Kit
04-10-2005, 02:38 PM
... I've always read that it is due to minerals in the food...you think a permanent mutation could possibly occur after a good many generations?
Well, there ya go, Jay, bringing up that ol' "Nature vs. Nurture" argument!

:p Speakin of a *rascal*!!!!!

At any rate, I figger it has to be a combination of the two. Otherwise, how can a "little gene" make antlers without minerals?

Jay Edward (deceased)
04-10-2005, 06:02 PM
I suppose you're right Kit...I just cannot understand the desire to have such a set of antlers.

I can imagine that animals like this have always been in evidence...yet I do not see them in really old pictures of animals that have been killed...nor do I read about them in really old hunting stories.

It may be that they are prized very much now due to competition and point systems.

For better or worse, my personal opinion is that there is nothing better looking (with regard to game animals) then well developed, fully mature symetrical deer...either Whitetail or Mule.

A case in point:

rockinbbar
04-10-2005, 06:28 PM
Jay,

Where I grew up hunting, in Llano County, Texas, there were areas of high mineral out crop, along with granite, silica sand, & rusty red dirt in general.

It seemed to everyone around the area that there was a disproportionate amount of non-typicals whitetails there.

The first buck I killed was a non-typical 10 point buck. In years of hunting there, I killed a natural stag, a few more non-typicals, & witnessed antlered does..(with decent racks) being taken, as well as a 5 legged deer, and a buck with 2 complete sets of genitals.

My grandad, who was a teacher in his younger days, said that Texas A&M did research studies in the area, and indeed found that the mineral content not only added probability to more non typical deer, but added numbers to the other type freaks I saw killed there.

In at least one instance it wasn't all negative....A long time family friend, Ted Bode killed a 200+ B&C non typical buck. That buck still stands in the Boone & Crockett record book. The long time world record buck was found about 30 miles from our Ranch in McCulloch County. That buck help number 1 slot for a LONG time, til the Hole in the Horn Buck was found. The Hole in the horn buck was also sterile....a natural stag. A number of wildlife biologists suggest that the non-typical monsters that break records are nearly all sterile...so that indicates some sort of out of whack hormones that cause the huge deformed antlers.

Thought I'd let ya'll know what little I learned about the subject.

Rockin'

Kit
04-10-2005, 06:37 PM
Well maybe it's pollutants? Besides the water problems, they say air pollution is soaked up by the trees, which we humans don't eat. Probably why we don't grow weird asymetrical antlers? OK Just spoofin there...

In your reading have you found comments about these? Perhaps they didn't want to waste their precious film on anything but the picture-perfect ones. And olden days they could hunt all year round, not have to photo shoot with their one-whatever-it-is that they got this season, either.

But still what I hear you saying is that you just plain think there are more nontypical percent-wise clearly evident in the population and there must be some reason/s for it!?

rockinbbar
04-10-2005, 06:42 PM
The reason given by the University were the high content of certain minerals in the soil. Nothing toxic, but a natural occurance in an area inundated with certain minerals.

Kit
04-10-2005, 06:55 PM
Hey, Rockin' that was very informative, you there writing intelligent matter while I'm slowly peckin' away at my keyboard here. Thanks.

Pretend mine was in the queue before ya, not after, ok?
:-)
~Kit

m gardner
04-11-2005, 06:00 PM
The deer I grew up hunting in New York (Adirondacks) and Vermont had small antlers and big bodies usually. Probably poor nutrition and hard winters. The largest I ever killed scored 147 2/8 B&C. He had 23 inch main beams and was 7 years old. Most of them winterkill before they got that old. The deer here in Colorado seem to live long and eat well and get big antlerwise. God bless and good hunting.