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HSM_miner
08-03-2008, 12:00 AM
I ran the following loads through a chrony today:

H4895, once fired Norma brass, Speer 270gr, C.O.L. 3.100"

47.5 gr .......... 2130 ft/sec
48.0 gr .......... 2170 ft/sec

I'll post pics of the two targets, the 48.0 gr load really made me smile. I will be doing more load development this week to obtain better chrony results. In my load notes, I stated I wanted a 2200ft/sec load that shot small groups. Looks like I'm really close. (That is a dime on the 48.0 gr target, 3 shot group.)

Brithunter
08-03-2008, 06:09 AM
Nice shooting I don't think my shot as well that load. Looking at my load records the laod was tried in April 2000 but I see I loaded them to 3.122" although I didn't have acces to a chronograph. Really must get one :( of course my last loads used the Norma 235 grain semi spitzers and found that in my rifle Reloader 15 works really well. Perhaps I should get my 9.3mm put back on for shooting and try some more 4895.

sakorick
08-03-2008, 07:20 AM
Hello Miner. Try some IMR4064. You will find that powder is perfect in Mauser cases, faster and more accurate. Those are great groups. What was the range? Regards, Rick.

HSM_miner
08-03-2008, 12:25 PM
I was shooting through my chrony at a target placed at 20 metres. I will not be doing this again as I had a fun time lining up the chrony to the target. When I shoot next time, I will be just shooting through the chrony to get speed results. Minimized hassle!

There is still quite a bit of work to do to get it shooting 100 metres. I want better chrony results. I am curious what another grain of powder will do in my rifle, however I am happy with the 48.0 gr load. Once I settle on a loading I will start shooting out to 100m to fine tune the load.
http://forums.gunboards.com/images/misc/progress.gif

Nelsdou
08-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Looks like the makings of an accurate load, Miner.

If you're interested in what Quickload predicts, for 48.0 grains of H4895, the prediction is 2241 fps at 44,500 psi pressure. Which supports your chrony readings.

The reason I say this is if your Husky is like mine, it has a looooong lead to get into the rifling (which QL doesn't model), so I would expect actual pressures and velocities to be less than what QL predicts. In my case I get backed out primers and smoky case necks until I load up to the higher end of charge weights.

I've been experimenting with IMR3031 because QL predicted higher velocity at lower pressure than H4895, but I'm not very happy with the accuracy. I've got one more set of 3031 loads with the Speer 270 to go through before switching powder. Let us know whatch ya get at 100 meters!

Nels

gitano
08-05-2008, 07:03 PM
I'm really interested in your I3031 data Nels. I have had the same results with it as you are reporting - great on paper, not so hot in practice. That is what has prompted me to try X2495, which I understand you are having difficulty locating. Anyway, please keep us informed on your I3031 results, in any rifle.

Paul

Nelsdou
08-07-2008, 12:19 AM
Yep, it's a bit of a mystery to me. The 9.3x57 isn't that far from a straight-wall cartridge, and pushing a heavy bullet would suggest a fairly fast powder. Others, including Miner, have reported obtaining good accuracy with H4895, that QL suggests less than optimum. My Husky has a lot of free bore, so much it's impossible to seat the bullet into the lands if one tried. One theory would be that maybe 3031 doesn't get burn or obtain the pressure characterics predicted because of this and H4895 is less "sensitive" in the same configuration. QL does indicate H4895 hits its max pressure peak much sooner than a comperable load of 3031 in this cartridge which also has me curious.

I understand Weatherby barrels are cut with a lot of free bore but I don't have any experence reloading for one so I'll hafta do a search to see if there are any handloading similarities there.

But I suspect "sumpthin" is going on during the initial bullet launch that is affecting accuracy. My Husky barrel has excellent rifling, crown, and glass-bedded stock that says accuracy but I haven't found it yet. Now that I think about it my paper-patch cast loads so far are better than jacketed.

My next set of 3031 loads I'm going to crank up the pressure in small increments and see where that takes me.

Nels

gitano
08-07-2008, 01:59 AM
The only thing I've heard about 3031 - and from several sources, none of which were terribly reliable, but not suspect either - is that it is a bit more temperature sensitive than "most" powders. I haven't used it enough to be able to comment legitimately on that characteristic.

In my .50 Alaskan, it does well, but I'm keeping max pressures relatively low at 25 kPSI. IF it is indeed temperature sensitive, it might also be a finicky with regard to things you speak of such as leade length, etc.

Actually, keeping a case full AND burning all of it in the barrel, are characteristics of 3031 that would seem to me to help keep it 'consisitent'. In my .50, 96% of a case-full gives me 1677 f/s at 25,004 kPSI. That gives me my desired 2000 ft-lbs at 300 and 25" of drop when zeroed at 192. That load seems to "work". However, I3031 loads in the MAI, don't "work" as well as X2495 does. In the MAI, X4064 seems to work better. :confused:

Anyway, I'm interested in what kind of performance you end up getting with it.

Paul

Brithunter
08-07-2008, 02:34 AM
Hi Nels,

When I got my 9.3x57 Husqvarna there was very little handloading data available for this cartridge. I eventually found the article in Wolfe Publishing :-

Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges

so started working with that and quickly found that in my particular rifle that his top loads were giving badly smoked cases where they had not obturated and sealed the chamber and that resulted in protruding primers. After careful consideration and talking with other experienced handloaders I started to load heavier loads than published. The loads were increased gradually until the smoked necks dissappeared and the primers remained virtually flush.

Once this point was reached with acceptable accuracy I stopped increasing the load even though the primers remain still slightly raised so pressures are still fairly low, as I said it's time I took up this load development once again but that means getting my licence changed to allow the use and shooting of my model 46 once again as presently it's listed for collection only. Yeah total stupidity upon the Police firearms Licensing Departments part but having brains and the common sense to use them is not a requisite of being employed by Lincolnshire Police.

I did manage to aquire two boxes of Norma factory ammunition loaded with the 286 grain Alaska bullet which shoots well, after acquiring a loose lot of Norma (Supposedly) 235 grain semi spitzers that I worked with them. At 75 meters these loads are gouping around 1 1/2- 2 MOA. Oh for cases I am using Norma brass that I got from a fellow shooter in Sweden as the importers here refused to help out unless I order a barrel (2000 pieces of brass) or a 1000 cartridges and at over 1 each it was not possible to persue this hence doing the trading with a fellow collector in Sweden for once fired brass.

HSM_miner
08-08-2008, 09:30 PM
I was aware that H4895 did not have the optimum pressure curve, however, I did not select it blindly. First, I have seen the results others have had with it at Gunboards and at Canadian Gunnutz. Second, I have been using Load from a Disk to profile my inital loads with H4895. Along with chronographing my loads, I have been very suprised how accurate the program's predictions have been. I reentered the cartridge dimensions from measurements taked from my fire formed brass and measured the case capacity. Thirdly, my barrel has a huge freebore. I can seat the Speer 270gr bullet so that it is just held by the case neck and still not touch any rifling.

Today, I continued with the load develpment shooting H4895 at 48.5gr, 49.0gr, 49.5gr, and 50.0gr. In summary all loading shot well, but 48.5gr shone like a star giving me a nice tight 5 shot ragged hole. Loads from 49.5gr onwards, gave very distinct bulging above the web and shiny flat spots on the case head. I will be making 48.5gr a max load for my rifle.

I will post pics of my targets tomorrow, as I am being kicked off the computer....lol..

ps....Just an aside.... I have shot some the 285gr Norma factory rounds, they did not shoot well from my rifle.....will post those targets as well....

Okay here are the promised targets. The H4895 targets are all 5 shot groups.

gitano
08-09-2008, 09:57 AM
That's some fine shooting HS. What was the range at which these targets were shot?

Paul

Nelsdou
08-09-2008, 10:02 PM
That H4985 load looks very good indeed!:biggthumpup:

I tried my IMR3031 loads today using the same Speer 270g bullet at 42.8, 43.5, 44.3 and 44.8 grains. I seat the bullets no deeper than the case necks, so my COL is 3.1". The fired cartridges exhibited the same characterics described by Brit., smokey case necks and slight protruding primers. Target results were like Miner's for the Norma 286 factory loads; all over the place. Except for the 3031 load of 44.8 grains. It snapped right in place with a 3-shot group of 1 MOA at 100 yds.

I was ready to give up on the 3031, but it looks like these Husky Model 46s in 9.3x57 don't come alive until you feed 'em some pressure. Quite lively too for a 7 lb. gun with a hard buttplate.

Like Miner, I plan to creep ahead a bit more on the loads until I see indications of excessive pressure, and I don't think I'll need to go very far.

Nevertheless, I stopped by the Sportsmen Warehouse and scooped up some H4895 and another box of Speer 270s. Those Speers are about the only 9.3 bullets I can find in stock and reasonably priced. Still no AA2495 to be had:Banghead: .

Nels

gitano
08-10-2008, 08:16 AM
Still no AA2495 to be had:Banghead: .



Wierd... Especially considering you're looking at Sportsman's Warehouse.

I used the standard numbers in QL for the 9.3x57 case, seated a Speer 270-grain bullet for an over-all length of 3.1", used 44.8 grains pf I3031, and get a chamber pressure of 42,704 Nels. Is that about where you are on paper?

Paul

Nelsdou
08-10-2008, 06:56 PM
Yep. On paper.

The original Norma 9.3x57 factory load for a 286 grain bullet is listed at 2067 fps in the Olsen Mauser Bolt Rifles. I calculated that compares pretty reasonably with the CIP max pressure of 37.7 ksi. But with as much freebore as some of these Huskies have I'm not sure how reliable one can predict pressure.

I thought swede M96 actions were pretty reliable up through 46 ksi so I don't understand the basis of the CIP limit. On the other hand my model 46 receiver ring seems a bit slim at 1.288" OD, hence I don't want to push the pressure parameter anymore than I have to.

Nels

gitano
08-10-2008, 08:34 PM
so I don't understand the basis of the CIP limit.


I've wondered that too. I have two thoughts. 1) They are simply copying numbers, not checking them, or 2) "These guys" are attributing something to cartridge design.

Personally, what I've read from more than one reliable source, is that in MODERN cartridges (meaning no balloon construction), the case, almost regardless of design, contains about 10,000 PSI. That makes some sense to me.

If that is in fact the case, then it's the action design/strength that matters almost exclusively. I'm trying to think of a single example I've read about where an action came apart when a barrel obstruction or extremely excessive load wasn't the culprit. I can't. I'm sure you know about Ackley's attempts to blow up an Arisaka.

That's not to say I'm trying to talk you into going 'uphill'. I'm not. What I am saying is that personally, I'd be creeping up 'til I started to see "signs" that I didn't like. One of those "signs" is sound. In every rifle I've 'pushed', I have always noted a point where the sound of the rifle changed. It's difficult to describe the sound, but it is one in which there is sort of a "tink". I always retreat from charges that produce that sound. Put another way, one can go along slowly increasing charges when at some point the sound of the report "changes". I always consider that point "too high" for my comfort zone.

When I got the pressure sensing gear it was quite an eye-opener. Unfortunately, it's a lot of trouble to fit a rifle with a pressure sensor, and I don't do it except when I think I'm going to be approaching the rifle's pressure max. With my interest in the larger calibers, "pushing the envelope" is a pretty rare occassion.

Paul

HSM_miner
08-19-2008, 01:22 PM
I will be doing some more shooting in the next day or so. There are a few things I would like to check. First, I will stay at 48.5gr of H4895 and will play with the C.O.L. to see how it will change things, accuracy, velocity, etc. Just as an side, the Norma 285gr Alaska factory rounds had a C.O.L. of 3.000".


I will be doing some 100m shooting to see how my last loading holds up at that distance.

gitano
08-19-2008, 02:16 PM
If you're interested in what Quickload predicts, for 48.0 grains of H4895, the prediction is 2241 fps at 44,500 psi pressure.


Hmm... I was rereading this thread and when I read this I ran the numbers through my version of QL, and I get significantly different results. Below is a screen-shot of the QL calculation page.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o266/paulskvorc/9pt3x57270Speer48gH4895.jpg

Do either of you see where I have some parameter off? I didn't change anything but OAL to 3.100", barrel length to 24", and charge to 48.0 grains of H4895. Everything else is the default value. As you can see, the estiamted chamber pressure is over 52,583 PSI. That's greatly different than 44,500 PSI.

Paul

Brithunter
08-19-2008, 08:19 PM
Hmmm Gitano,

The only thing that I can think of is groove depth/diameter :undecided: Don't know what Nels one measures but my own Model 46 has a large groove size which of course effect pressures. The free-bore he mentions will also effect this I am thinking?

Nelsdou
08-19-2008, 08:46 PM
The differences I see are in the H4895 propellant table: (Yours vs mine)

Ba .7106 vs .6286
a0 .0558 vs .1636
z1 .320 vs .542
Factor b 1.2232 vs 1.5418

Also Pmax MAP of 50763 is by Piezo whereas mine is 37710 by CUP CIP. Don't know if that is a factor that can customize propellant properties.

I'm not aware of inadvertently changing the powder file but it is certainly worth investigating!

Just for grins IMR4895 is Ba .6100, a0 -.1500, z1 .643, Factor b 1.5909

Nels

gitano
08-20-2008, 10:35 AM
Hmmm Gitano,

The only thing that I can think of is groove depth/diameter :undecided: Don't know what Nels one measures but my own Model 46 has a large groove size which of course effect pressures. The free-bore he mentions will also effect this I am thinking?

While one can change groove diameter within QL, I used the nominal figures, and QL has no capability to account for leade.

Nels,

The burn characteristiscs ARE exactly the issue. The user CAN change the burning characteristics of a specific powder, but I do not change them. Furthermore, I was using QL's default values.

Addtionally, the differences in Maxes is disturbing. I intend to call QL this morning and get to the bottom of this if I can.

If different versions of QL have different powder characteristics and Max chamber pressure values, it is a VERY serious matter.

Paul

I just checked my newest version of QL (V 3.4, the older version is 3.2), and the version 3.4 values are the same as those you posted Nels. I called NECO (the US distributor of QL) and was unable to get a person. I have always reached a person before. I left a message, and will report what I find out when I hear.

I just checked another powder, and there is again a difference in burning characteristic variables between V3.2 and v3.4.

gitano
08-20-2008, 12:18 PM
While I still have not heard back from NECO - QL's US distributor, I have a bit of news. I read the "Read Me" file entirely, and find notes about changes to certain powders, including H4895. There is no reference to what was changed except "burning rate", still, it is noted, along with several other powders. There is no note regarding the change in max pressure or the source for the change. Looks like I'll have to load verson 3.4 on this computer, and read the "Read Me" files in their entirety on future upgrades.

There are noted also, several "errors" in versions earlier than 3.2. I'm going to have to look hard at every starting load I have recently worked up for the .375x55 Swiss, STS 8mm, SLT 8mm, and my hand-made bullets for the .50 Alaskan. Lots of time wasted.

Paul

HSM_miner
08-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Hmmmm, when I checked the grove diameter on my rifle I got .368". I will have to check to see if I still have that slug laying around, as I can not remember the diameter off the the lands..... .365" comes to mind.....but very hazy:biggthumpup:

Load from a Disk shows the 48.5 gr load at about 45000 CUP

gitano
08-20-2008, 07:41 PM
I just got off the phone with Ed from NECO, the US distributor of QL. There are a few "issues". For example, he doesn't believe the new 37.7 kSPI Max Pressure nor the 0.5 weighting factor for the 9.3x57 in version 3.4.

The bottom line is: For the time being, until I get in touch with the author of QL via email, loads calculated with v3.2 are suspect and should be taken with a grain of salt. Loads calculated with v3.4 are probably correct. Max pressure standards (the 37.7 kPSI figure for example), are suspect, but in the end have no impact on loads - or shouldn't anyway.

Paul

Nelsdou
08-20-2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks for calling in Paul. I had also gone through the readme notes, the user guide and back to the original disk to see if I had inadvertently changed or corrupted the powder file.

It'd be nice if NECO had a place on their website for a running readme or "bugs found" file.

Looking forward to hear what you find.

Nels

gitano
08-20-2008, 10:40 PM
It'd be nice if NECO had a place on their website for a running readme or "bugs found" file.

Nels

Amen to that!

Paul

Brithunter
08-21-2008, 07:36 PM
Hi Guys,

Well I got my model 46 out of the cabinet and loaded 20 rounds for her. 10 with the Norma 232 grain semi spitzer bullet and 10 with the S&B 193 grain flat point bullet. Cases are Norma 9.3x57 and primers are Rem 9 1/2's.

Looked up what I last got too and was surprised at the load levels, bear in mind that my rifle has very deep grooves, they measure 0.370" with a digital caliper, which might effect the pressures. With the 232 Norma's I used Reloader 15 and the charge weight is 50.0 grains which is 100% loading density.

With the 193 grain S&B I used H-335 and 50.0 grains is also the chargeof that . These are what I had worked up to before so I will try them again and see how the accuracy goes. The test will be on our field providing I can get to it and the weather co-operates. If they are harvesting the field behind ours then obviously I cannot shoot in that direction just in case :eek: . My rifle has an old Bushnell Scope Chief 3x fitted and I will try for 75 yards at least.

HSM_miner
08-21-2008, 10:21 PM
I did get out to shoot today, with mixed success. I did get some consistant chrony readings on the 48.5gr load. It averaged 2234 ft/sec.

Then I tried to zero my scope without much success, shots grouped as before but I ran out of windage adjustment on the scope. Alignment problem kicking me in the butt again. Time to change out those weaver rings I think. There are few thing I might try first, however, I have low expectations.:frown

I will try again in a few days, time to ponder some more.:undecided:

Nelsdou
08-22-2008, 12:27 AM
Miner,

Are you going to try any other bullets in your 9.3x57?

I've got some 200 grain Hawk RNs to try out some day but I haven't decided yet on a powder. QL suggests faster powders than I'm used to and the stubby 200 grainer is gonna have to make quite a jump to hit the lands.

Nels

Oops, I missed Brit's posting, that 193 grain S&B is stubbier yet.

Brithunter
08-22-2008, 03:45 AM
Nelsdou,

With the 193 grain S&B bullet I used H-335 which is a fairly fast powder. Plug that in and see what QL spits out :biggthumpup: Reloader 15 would also probably work. Although Reloader 12 might be better as you might run out of case capapcity with the 15. I only worked with what I had to hand. Initally I did use H-4895 but the results were not that good so I tried working up loads with these two other powders. Good luck with It.

Oh Lynx make the old Hilver spigot mounts, the bases have a spigot and the rings a hole which goes over it and two jam screws which locate into a waist on the spigot, This gives windage adjustment on both front and rear rings. Here is their web site:-

http://www.lynxoptics.com.au/

Sorry but the better photos were on Photobucket which I still cannot access :Banghead: but here is what they look like on the Model 46:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/240974/10354655.jpg

Oh stupid me I have the same type mounts on my sporterised Swedish Mauser 6.5x55, here is a better look at them, these have the extended front base.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/876929/28858651.jpg

HSM_miner
08-23-2008, 09:05 PM
I have some 250gr Nosler Accubonds which I just can not bring myself to shoot. They cost twice as much as the Speers. I would like to try out the Hornady bullet, but have not come across any yet. For me, it is just bullet availablity which determines what I shoot.

Others up here have been swagging .375" bullets down to .366". Some even have been swagging .375" bullets down to their slugged bore diameter. These bullets showed some promise, and would open up available bullets for the 9.3. I have not ventured there yet, as I have other issues with my rifle I need to iron out first.

The Speer just shoots so nicely for me, but if I can find a cheaper bullet, I will shoot it!

gitano
08-23-2008, 09:12 PM
I have swaged some jacketed commercial bullets from .338 to .330. I even shot them ;). They worked well on paper targets. I would expect the .375 to .366-ish 'coversion' to work without a problem and provide at least 'adequate' hunting precision.

I am using the Accubond 260s in my .376 Steyr, and .375 wildcats. On paper, it's a great bullet. I'm planning to use it in the .375x55 Swiss I take to Colorado this fall.

Paul

Nelsdou
08-23-2008, 11:29 PM
These 200 grain Hawks I picked up are supposed to be soft lead cores with thin annealed copper jackets, apparently to expand rapidly at modest velocities.

I haven't shot anything with them to validate that claim but thought it would interesting to try. The 9.3x57 should be able to get a 200 grain pill somewhere in the 2,500 MV range. However the 200 Hawk is pretty stubby; BC is probably down in the beer keg range.

Nels

Brithunter
08-24-2008, 01:55 AM
Hi Guys,

I have been thinking about swaging down some 0.375" bullets to 0.370" to try in my rifle but have been too busy with other things to get around to it.

gitano
08-24-2008, 10:20 AM
These 200 grain Hawks I picked up are supposed to be soft lead cores with thin annealed copper jackets, apparently to expand rapidly at modest velocities.

I haven't shot anything with them to validate that claim but thought it would interesting to try. ... However the 200 Hawk is pretty stubby; BC is probably down in the beer keg range.


I have some .330 Hawks, and I would echo the above exactly.

By the way, if you're not put off by low BCs, Hawk will make just about whatever your little heart desires with respect to weight and caliber, (within reason of course).

Paul

Steve D
08-24-2008, 01:07 PM
I'm not familiar with Hawk. Are these guys associated with the Scoville series of wildcats. I have read some references that they are also known as Hawk-Scoville, or even Scoville-Hawk.

Brithunter
08-24-2008, 07:51 PM
Hi Guys,

Not sure what the reason is, if it's the 193 grain S&B bullet being short and stubby?, or it's the loading is wrong but I noticed that the loads with this short flat point bullet strung vertically at the range today and I got to use the bench today instead of shooting rested from prone.. Despite there being no excessive or even high pressure signs I have decided to back down on the loads slightly :shy: as the Husqvarna Mod 46 is a light rifle and these 50.0 grain (H-335) loads have sharp snappy recoil and bark to the report. I am also wondering about changing the scope to a four times for a bit more magnification I have several not fitted to anything just now so...................

The 232 grain Norma semi spitzers also didn't group very well :confused: so I need to re-think my loads with them and look at what I had done previously :Banghead: . Perhaps it's time to try the longer bullets with more rearing surface?

gitano
08-24-2008, 11:10 PM
I'm not familiar with Hawk. Are these guys associated with the Scoville series of wildcats. I have read some references that they are also known as Hawk-Scoville, or even Scoville-Hawk.

Not as far as I know. You can visit them here:

http://www.hawkbullets.com/

Paul

sakorick
08-25-2008, 07:58 AM
Hi Guys,

Not sure what the reason is, if it's the 193 grain S&B bullet being short and stubby?, or it's the loading is wrong but I noticed that the loads with this short flat point bullet strung vertically at the range today and I got to use the bench today instead of shooting rested from prone.. Despite there being no excessive or even high pressure signs I have decided to back down on the loads slightly :shy: as the Husqvarna Mod 46 is a light rifle and these 50.0 grain (H-335) loads have sharp snappy recoil and bark to the report. I am also wondering about changing the scope to a four times for a bit more magnification I have several not fitted to anything just now so...................

The 232 grain Norma semi spitzers also didn't group very well :confused: so I need to re-think my loads with them and look at what I had done previously :Banghead: . Perhaps it's time to try the longer bullets with more rearing surface?

My guess is that it's not the bullets. Copper in the barrel or perhaps the guard screws loose? Could the action be binding or barrel? Vertical strings usually is a bedding issue. Regards, Rick.

Brithunter
08-25-2008, 10:11 PM
Ahhh Sakorick,

The Model 46 has three screws, two on the action and one on the barrel all are tight and the stringing is not apparant with the heavier 232 grain bullet but very noticable with the 193 grain bullet. I will try some of the Speer 270 grainers I have in the cupboard next week. The bedding on the rifle is standard and the barrel is not floated. Barrel is clean of copper and the rifle had not been fired in a year or so and then only a few rounds. Last serious work with it was back in 2005 :( been busy with others. I will also see if another scope might fit and am considering stealing a Pecar 3-7x36 off my BSA Model e to try on the Husqvarna.

Oh the bore is clean again now as I cleaned it on Sunday and checked the muzzle for signs of copper fouling.

HSM_miner
08-31-2008, 08:45 PM
I worked on the scope issues today. I managed to align these scope rings and roughly zero the scope at twenty yards. Today I was shooting 48.0gr of 4895 under the 270gr Speer.

I ended up doing all the alignment work in the field. I removed the scope from the mounts and placed a .993" steel rod into the scope mounts and tighened. A very small amount of primative bore alignment was applied and the mounts seemed to just click into place. I am not sure if the mounts were misaligned to the bases, or if they were slightly bent. It was a crude fix, but seemed to have worked.:undecided:

The target show my last 8 shots. There is a three shot group to the left of bull about 1"to1.5" over. Then I made two site adjustments during the last five shots at bull. This is where I stopped due to a shortage of loaded ammo:eek:

Now I can start to fine tune the load & the scope at distance.

Brithunter
09-01-2008, 02:43 AM
Ahhh it's looking good :biggthumpup: we await further developments.

Nelsdou
09-05-2008, 12:47 AM
Yes Miner, I'm anxious to see how your load performs out at 100 yards or more.

I've been less than satisfied with my results at 100 yards with open sights but I'm scrutizing my shooting form and possibly modifying the front bead sight to make a sharper "aim point". The minimal amount of forearm wood and light overall weight makes this Husky a pleasure to carry and swing onto the target. So much so I'm wondering if I'm unconsciously torquing the gun on trigger squeeze.

My last range session I put some 270 grain hard cast thru the 'ol girl at an estimated 1,900 fps and managed to not lead the barrel, which I consider a major accomplishment. I plan to play with this combo some more. Really like the big holes the 9.3 makes :) .

Nels

HSM_miner
09-05-2008, 04:22 AM
So much so I'm wondering if I'm unconsciously torquing the gun on trigger squeeze.

Nels

I caught myself doing this very thing a few times. When I relaxed, and shot instinctively, it went away. During my last shooting sesson no less.:undecided:

gitano
09-05-2008, 10:02 AM
The results of my 300-yd session with the .50 Alaskan have me contemplating designs for a new target for sighting in open sights. The front bead on the .50 covers about 8.5" of target at 100 yds. At 300, that's 25.5". Centering that consistently without using at least a two-point reference on the edge is asking 'a bit much' of any shooter. (That's one reason I prefer posts to beads.) Nonetheless, if two points can be found, there's little difference in a bead and a post.

The simplest way to get a two-point reference that's not range specific from 50 to 300 yds, is to use a triangle. With the target either shaped as a triangle, or with a large triangle on it, the bead can be positioned such that the top sides of the triangle just touch the top edge of the bead. I suppose a picture is worth a thousand words, so see below for a simple representation of what I'm talking about.

I'll be modifying the targets that I use for sighting in open sights, in order to get some sort of consistent reference points.

Paul

HSM_miner
09-09-2008, 10:42 AM
Has anybody tried Reloder 19 in their 9.3's? I just came across some old loading data for a couple old medium bores listing Reloder 19 (34WCF and 35 WCF). Just a thought, it is just itching in my mind, as I have a pound of it hiding in my reloading cabinet.:yes:

MooseMT
09-10-2008, 09:41 PM
Just catching up on this thread. I got a Mauser 98 small ring in 9.3 X57 last year. Glass bedded the action, floated the barrel and put an old weaver 4 X on it and loaded 47 gr 4895 and 270 gr Speer in reformed 8mm winchester brass. Shoots nice little clover leaf 3 shot groups at 100 yards. Nice light little rifle.

Last fall I shot one antelope doe and 2 mule deer does with it from 50 to 150 yards. All reacted the same ran about 20 yards and fell over. All shot behind the shoulder only rib bones hit. 2 inch entrance and 4 exit, plenty large blood trail. I wasn't sure the 270 gr speer would open up on rib bones on these little critters, but they work great.

I need to put a new trigger with safety on the gun. Right now it has the 98 safety and with the scope on it doesn't work. I just leave the chamber empty until I get ready to shoot. It does have a nice little butter knife bolt. I found it in a little gun shop nobody wanted it because of the lack of ammo etc.. got a screaming deal....

These are great little guns, I have seen the swedish ones on line but not in person.

The caliber is great, they do make a nice wound channel and since they are not really high velocity you can eat the bullet hole, very little bloodshot meat. I intend to use it on most of my deer and antelope this year.

Jeff

gitano
09-11-2008, 01:19 AM
Good post...

Paul

MooseMT
09-11-2008, 02:16 PM
Thanks

My next project is getting a load for Ramshot TAC.

It runs on sale for $9.00 a pound and it works great in my .223, 22-250, 308 and 358. From what I am gathering I can use some of the 358 data as a starting point, although a bit reduced. I am somewhat skeptical of extrapolating data from cartridge to cartridge.

Has anyone tried TAC in their 9.3 X57?

Thanks

Jeff

Steve D
09-12-2008, 12:33 AM
Ramshot-TAC? Is it low pressure? I have a 358 that just loves low pressure loads.

MooseMT
09-12-2008, 06:54 AM
I am not sure what you mean by low pressure, but I am assuming for cast or reduced loads? No it isn't. It is a great powder, meters great and is very temp stable. All the calibers I mention shoot very accurately with close to max loads. I like it because it meters so well through my Dillon measure.

I got my 358 a couple of years ago, it really opened my eyes, 200 grain hornady makes it a very well rounded gun. I ended up hunting a river bottom for a whitetail and got an oppurtunity at a nice mulie buck about 275 yards. I had no problem with hitting that deer and theh 358 performed well. I also shot a whitetail doe at 30 yards worked fine too.

I have a real nice load with 250 grain speers and TAC powder, groups just over an inch out of my BLR.

Good luck

Jeff

Nelsdou
09-12-2008, 10:23 PM
No, I have not tried Ramshot TAC in my 9.3x57, but the price sounds attractive.

A quick check on QuickLoad indicates it should work ok, but be careful you can get high pressure as you approach filling the case 90% or more. This is assuming shooting a 270 grain Speer at a COL of 3.1 inches.

Mine is a Model 46 with the small ring Swede action, iron sights, little over 6 pounds. I prefer to keep the calculated chamber pressure to 46ksi or less.

Interestingly I've found (because my primers keep backing out) my chamber is a bit long, approximately .017". Even at the higher pressure loads, the brass grabs the chamber and doesn't load the boltface. I plan to work some brass to bump the shoulders up and resize before shooting any more.

Nels

gitano
09-13-2008, 09:35 AM
Y'know Nels, Ed at NECO said that the "weighting factor" for the 9.3x57 should be more like .7 than .5. I wonder if that would get the paper numbers closer to the real ones?

Paul

MooseMT
09-13-2008, 07:11 PM
This is my first old mauser rifle, according to the measurements and all the photos of actions it appears that it is a Model 98 small ring. I found a similar one on line at an auction site, but no others. The previous owner who claimed to be a collector of sorts also said it was a Model 98.

It does have the gunsmith's name Franz Schmidt under the barrel inside of the forend, no other markings other than serial number. On the top of the barrel there is 7. 9 perhaps the original chambering. On the right side of action near the barrel is an eagle looking right over what appears to be an N. On the top of the bolt release there is three markings I can't make out.

The guy that had previously owned the gun had taken it to a gunsmith who did a chamber cast and then stamped the 9.3 X57 on the side of the barrel. The guy had owned the gun before had the gun for over 10 years and never shot it because of the ammo situation, truly un-american if you ask me.

The auction site said the other Franz Schmidt rifle was made in 1937.

I don't know what it weighs but it has got to be 6 pound area even with the scope. It has a 23.5 inch barrel and the stock is very slender plain jane wood. It looks very similar the german sporting rifles especially with the butter knife bolt. It carries easy and snaps right up to your shoulder. For a light weight rifle it does hang nice and is easy to shoot accurately even with a heavy trigger.

If the dang elk didn't suprise me at 250 or more I would gladly take it elk hunting and wouldn't hesitate to shoot one at 200 yards with it. If I hunted them in the timber or thick cover it would be a great elk gun. But it is pretty wide open where I hunt them so I play it save and take my .338.

If any of you have any information on Franz Schmidt (german gunsmith) or how to positively id the action please let me know.

What kind of starting loads do you all think would be good with the TAC powder and Speer 270 grainers?

Thanks

Jeff

Nelsdou
09-14-2008, 01:26 AM
Moose, you ought to try and post some pics if you can. I thought only the Swedes chambered the 9.3x57s. Most of the German stalking rifles I've seen and read about were 7.92 or 9mm, or 9.3 in 9.3x62. You may have a unique rifle there.

Here is a pic of my Husky:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/BubbaChevy/husky_9.jpg
There were a number of Husqvarnas manufactured on the M98 action as well. A good place to view some Swede and German sporter pics is at Simpson LTD.

I would think the 9.3x57 would work well on elk, particularly in timber, but not long open range shots w/o a scope. If you look at the ballistics the big bullets start dropping like a KU quarterback after 150 yards or so.

At Paul's suggestion I cranked some QL numbers using the weighting factor more appropriate for cylindrical cases and the numbers are a bit more conservative.

As for Ramshot powders, the Ramshot Big Game came towards the top of the list with much better velocities than TAC for a given pressure - food for thought. Ramshot TAC, assuming the 270 Speer and a COL of 3.100, gets to 46ksi on filling the case 87% full, or about 47 grains. TAC sounds too quick for me, I'd stick with H4895 or try Big Game.

Started to work on my front bead sight. Funny thing I've noticed if I view the front bead held above the rear notch, the bead appears small and thin. When I drop the barrel to where the front bead is seen through the rear notch, which is a U-notch and not a V, the bead "swells" and almost fills the notch.


Nels

MooseMT
09-14-2008, 07:29 AM
Nels

I did some more reviewing on the web, cause I am too cheap to actually buy a mauser book.

On one site it refered to rifles whose actions are "scrubbed" of markinigs as Guild Rifles, built prior to WWII by civilian gun makers who demilatarized a ton of 98's. I still don't know if that is what I have or not. Your rifle is similar the barrel sling swivel on mine is brazed to the botom of the barrel and not a band.

One site said the eagle over the N was an stamp on the receiver started in 39 and required by 40 so maybe that dates it closer.

The measurement on the receiver ring is 1.25 inches in the small ring range, the bolt has three locking lugs (98). Distance between front screw and front trigger guard screw about 4.9 inches, distance between rear action screw and front trigger guard screw 2.86 inches.

I am more curious that anything else because I really like the little gun. I had shopped hard to get my 358 cause I always wanted one. This is like a mid-range gun between the 358 and 35 whelen powerwise. Not much difference, but it keeps me interested.

I doubt if I will have the new trigger and safety in before I go hunting this year same with working up the new loads. Big Game is good too, I may try it, I just like the TAC for price. For no more than I shoot the gun I don't need to set up my progressive press for it anyway. I am watching fall sales on the speer bullets to stock up.

I may end up messing with some cast bullets next year as well. When I can figure out the posting of the pictures I will take some of the rifle and post them.

I have not tried my iron sights, it is a fixed rear very sturdy looking. I don't shoot the iron sights like I used to and the receiver was already drilled and tapped for scope, so I just mounted a scope on it before I did much with it. One day I should check them out to see where this load hits.

Thanks

Jeff

gitano
09-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Not interested in talking anybody "in to" or "out of" anything, but yous guys might consider the 250 Accubond bullet. It has a published BC of .496. When loaded to 46 kPSI with TAC, it will get to 300 yds only being 13" low and still carrying 1845 ft-lbs of energy.

If Accubonds aren't your "cup o' tea", the 286-grain Nosler Partition sports a BC of .482. (While I have no personal experience with this specific bullet, my experience with Partition BCs is that the published values are correct.) That bullet and RS-TAC at 46 kPSI will get to 300 yds with 1815 ft-lbs and dropping only 17".

Considering the size of target an elk is, you'd not have to aim 'off hair' at 300 for either of those bullets. The bad news is of course, both are considerably more expensive than the Speer 270. If you're really adventurous you could try some of the GS Custom bullets. They have even higher BCs. Unfortunately, their prices (once you get them to the States) are "premium" too.

Finally, there are more than a few powders that will get you to higher velocities with lower pressure than TAC, but I agree that $9/lb is 'attractive'.

start dropping like a KU quarterback
I didn't miss that, Nels...:greentongue:

Paul

MooseMT
09-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Great suggestions.

What ballistic program are you using? Have you run the 270 speer?

Nelsdou
09-14-2008, 10:56 PM
Both Paul and I use QuickLOAD, although I'm a still a "grasshopper" learning the program.

What has been a bit perplexing with the 9.3x57 is some of the quirks. One is the low pressure (38 ksi) the Norma standard round has with a 286 grain bullet at 2067 fps. I'm fully confident the Swedish receiver can work at 46 ksi without a hitch, and that is about all the recoil I care to take from this light, carry-friendly rifle. (I can only speculate but that standard Norma load is probably based on the old Norma 203 powder.) Another quirk is the huge amount of freebore the Husqvarna barrels have that tends to moderate chamber pressure, something that is not modeled by QL.

But that's what makes life interesting.

My initial trials for the 270 Speer were using IMR3031 as that powder was a high-stepper on velocity for the workin' pressure range and 100% burn, but accuracy was so-so. Miner reported good results using H4895 and his numbers are in general "agreement" with what I see in QL.

My previous comments about "bullet drop" are relative to my situation to iron sights. They correspond to the standard Norma Load (286 g bullet @2067 MV) zeroed at 120 meters, so my point-blank "range" is limited. As Paul's QL table shows, you can adjust the scope zero out with each bullet/load and adjust your "reach".

That's what I like about QL, once you have your rifle/load setup calculated, (and you're comfortable with it) you can see the data in a lot of different ways.

I like to look at the pressure charts showing bullet position relative to chamber pressure. For example, picking a powder for a hard-cast lead bullet for the 9.3x57. I wanted to keep pressure from peaking above 25 ksi (avoid upsetting the lead bullet too much) and wanted a "slow" pressure rise (gentle to the bullet base) and to peak after the bullet was fully engraved into the lands. I also wanted the pressure to be progressively maintained (endure) as much as possible after peaking to continue accelerating the bullet to the muzzle, and use a full charge in the cartridge to avoid any secondary combustion spikes or detonations. With these kinds of expectations, getting a full burn in the barrel fell off the table and really isn't that important. Ran a number of scenerios with the pressure charts and found a good candidate in AA4350. Fired 18 rounds of 270 grain hard-cast lead bullets down range on a hot day with no indication of barrel leading and all bullets cleanly cut the paper at 100yds without a wobble. Calculated MV 1900 fps. Bingo. Now all I have to do is fine tune that load a bit more (and my marksmanship) and it's ready.

I'll work on those 270 Speers some more after I get my brass to fit my long chamber. On jacketed I figured on experimenting with the Speers since they are much cheaper and more available than the Noslers. Prvi-Partizan 285's are reasonable too when they're in season at Graf's.

Nels

gitano
09-15-2008, 12:21 AM
Have you run the 270 speer?


I thought Nels had, but I guess his work was with cast 270's.

Keeping the pressure to 46 kPSI, the trajectory for the 270-grain Speer looks like this.

Paul

MooseMT
09-15-2008, 07:08 AM
Thanks to both of you. I haven't explored Quickload yet. It sounds like a good investment.

Nels what kind of cast bullet mold are you using? 1900 with a 270 graini cast bullet would be very appealing to me. Would be nice for deer and such.

Thanks

Jeff

Steve D
09-15-2008, 02:58 PM
My 358 is an old mauser, rebarreled. It has a short barrel, red dot scope and I don't intend to shoot very far. I like to shoot heavy bullets, 225+ gr, and I would like to find some heavy cast bullets, as well. I am sure my gun is safe with the standard 358 pressures, but I don't want to push it.

Nelsdou
09-15-2008, 10:19 PM
Here's a pic left to right the 9.3mm 270 Speer, a (.367") 270g hard-cast lead Mt. Baldy, 220 g hard-cast lead LBT in 35 cal, and a pair of 9.3mm 200g Hawks.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/BubbaChevy/000_0031.jpg

The Mt. Baldy bullet has such a big meplat I use a Lee case burr remover to put a chamfer on it so it will feed into the chamber. I believe they only come in one size and that's .367. Mt. Baldy Bullets is out of Cody, WY. I bought the 35 cal LBTs from a fella on Auction Arms to paper-patch in the 9.3. They would work well as-is in a 358 Win.

I've had good and bad results paper-patching .358 bullets in the 9.3. That's another science project in itself, after I get the 270's (both jacketed and cast) final loads developed.

Nels

MooseMT
09-16-2008, 07:34 AM
Nels

I will have to check into the MT Baldy bullets. I am headed to Billings today, I will hit the usual haunts that will have cast bullets and see if I can find some. I found an article last night from on lever actions written by a character named Paco. His loads seem to be a little hot to me, but he talks about a 280 grain cast for the .358 in the article.

I found the article on line under Leverguns.com "Winchester's sleeper..358 wcf by Paco" He refers to a Lyman 3589 or 358009, round nose cast 280 grain.

I have checked into more references on my little 9.3 and it is looking more and more like a Pre WWII german guild rifle. The action looks like it was a G33/40 or 98a which was a small ring 98 mauser. I have to get some photos and send it to the german rifle collectors to try and get more information. It is a nice working mans type rifle, nothing fancy but it is a real nice shooter.

I am not going Elk Hunting until November, most likely will end up tempting fate and taking it just cause it carries so nice.

What loads have you gotten around to using with the Mt Baldy bullets?

I tried to attach a photo but I have to resize it, I will figure it out in the next day or two.



Jeff

Nelsdou
09-16-2008, 09:31 PM
Jeff,

The load that show the best potential for me is 48 grains AA4350 with the bullet seated no deeper than the neck. I'm lucky that the .367 sized bullets fits my rifle. I can't recall the specifics on the alloy but I believe they are pretty hard. I'm still tweakin' that load so I may end up somewhere plus or minus of that 48 grains.

Nels

sakorick
09-17-2008, 08:08 AM
Jeff,

The load that show the best potential for me is 48 grains AA4350 with the bullet seated no deeper than the neck. I'm lucky that the .367 sized bullets fits my rifle. I can't recall the specifics on the alloy but I believe they are pretty hard. I'm still tweakin' that load so I may end up somewhere plus or minus of that 48 grains.

Nels

Hello Nels. I am curious why you are seating the bullet no deeper than the neck? Regards, Rick.

Nelsdou
09-17-2008, 07:02 PM
Rick,

For cast bullets I like to keep the base of the bullet (or gas check) no deeper than the neck junction to the shoulder. That way on ignition the hot gases are directed only onto the base (or gas check) and minimizes the mischief the gases could cause if the bullet bearing surfaces/lube is exposed or allow the gases to "cut" past the bullet itself.

I also tend to seat cast bullets "out" to engage the lands to help get 'em started square. But due to the huge amount of freebore in the 9.3x57 I can't get there.

Some folks seat their cast bullets deeper than the necks without any problems, but I just prefer to avoid it.

Nels

HSM_miner
10-07-2008, 01:36 AM
I have been struggling to find time to find tune my load out to 100 meters. First, I resighted my scope to 100 meters. I did this, as I will be hunting with this rifle in thick cover. I think that 50 to 60 meters will be a long shot, but expect close encounters at 10 to 30 meters.

I did play with the C.O.L. on the H4895 48.0 load. I brought the C.O.L. down to 3.080" from 3.100". This made little difference in my rifle as they shot almost identical groups.

Next, I went up to 48.5gr of H4895 at a C.O.L. of 3.100". I just like this load, my rifle does too.

I have run out of time to play with this load any further. I have some home renovations to finish and some hunting to do! I am very interested to see how one of these 270gr Speers will work on a moose or a deer!:yes:

gitano
10-07-2008, 09:07 AM
I am very interested to see how one of these 270gr Speers will work on a moose or a deer!


Me too! Waiting for pictures...

Paul

MooseMT
10-07-2008, 09:34 PM
I am sure you will be very happy with the results. It is a great work horse round. I took mine to the range the other day to check the zero. At 100 yards my first shot was high left (I had cleaned the bore the day before) the next two shots touched each other 2.5 inches high right where I like it, so I didn't see any use in shooting anymore. I am planning on using this as my main rifle this season. Antelope season opens this weekend and I have three tags for these tasty little prairie goats in my pocket. Deer opens in a couple of weeks and I have tags for 5 and then Elk. I am trusting this rifle for the vast majority of my big game hunting. I am very confident in shooting any of these critters within 225 yards and that the 270 speer will work just fine.

Good luck on the Moose you will not have a problem.

Jeff

Nelsdou
10-08-2008, 10:54 PM
Me too! I'd like to what you guys get in regard to terminal performance. Good luck!

MooseMT
10-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Today I finally got my chance at one of my antelope. We have had wind, lots of snow, kept me out of the field until it dried up. A buddy and me pulled a good stalk on about 30 antelope. They came out of a draw just drifting with the wind. The first 4 in range and view were 3 does and a small buck. I took the third doe in line when she got off by herself and mostly broadside. One 270 grain speer behind the shoulder at 160 yards, slightly angled away. It hit right behind the left shoulder, out through the center top of right shoulder, she was DRT. I pulled the skin off and very little blood shot meat, not bad for a shoulder hit. Like I said before you can eat the bullet hole with these little guns.

So far my tally with the 9.3 x 57 in two years is 4 shots fired two antelope and two deer.

I will head out again in the next week or so for the rest of my antelope, deer opens this weekend as well. Stay tuned.

Jeff

gitano
10-20-2008, 09:51 PM
So far my tally with the 9.3 x 57 in two years is 4 shots fired two antelope and two deer.


Hard to beat that. Congratulations.

Paul

Nelsdou
10-20-2008, 11:49 PM
Can't argue with success. Good to hear the Speers very well for ya!

Nels

MooseMT
10-23-2008, 07:32 PM
I went out and finished my antelope hunting this year. The little 9.3 is rapidlby becoming a favorite for me. The trajectory isn't bad at all, however that wind drift today didn't help my tally for the gun. I ended up stalking on three does and could not get closer than 275 yards. A large herd of about 40 came through the stubblefield and sucked the 3 does and a buck out of their spot and a little closer to me. At about 235 yards the buck stopped broadside to me. I was stable on my shooting sticks and ignored the 15 mph plus wind blowing crossways. At the shot the antelope begain running but they didn't know where I was, I watched the buck as he ran about 20 yards closer to me. He finally cleared the rest of the antelope and all I had was a quartering to me shot. I knew he was hit hard but I didn't want him to get lost in the herd so I took the only shot I had. 210 yards hit him in the base of the neck, and out the same side in front of the diaphram, DRT. Then I swung over to the right and found a doe at the end of the herd. She stopped at 250 but was stopped and broadside. I held just a little higher on her chest and fired. The herd ran east she spun and ran N.W. the stopped quartering away with her head down, I then held behind her shoulder on the left side and high. I saw my bulllet kick up about 4 inches to the right of her, **** wind......Then she ran out a few more yards and stood straight away from me. I knew she was hit and I didn't want her to get out any farther. I held a little above her head and to the left about 10 inches and fired off a hail mary shot. I saw a cloud of dirt to her right and she collasped. I watched her to make sure she was DRT and she was.

I tagged and cleaned the buck, my first shot had drifted with the wind about 4 inches and had hit him behind the diaphram, however it wasn't all messy, just holes through the front of the stomach. My second shot busted out at least 4 inches of spine and detached almost all of the ribs on that side, didn't look like much slowed down the big speer.

I walked about 200 yard to where the doe was and tagged and cleaned her. My first shot had too drifted with the wind and hit the front part of the right shoulder and exited on the front of the left shoulder. I found that my second shot had barely cut the skin on the right ham and rib cage. The third hail mary shot hit about two inches above her spine dead center in the neck taking out about 2 inches of neck bone. (no way I could have ever made that shot again, but I am glad I did.

The little gun and the 270 speers performed great. Too bad this caliber is often overlooked. I have a lot more confidence now to take it after elk.

I took photos and will try to post.

Jeff

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/jandkatie/fallhunting004.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/jandkatie/fallhunting005.jpg

MooseMT
10-23-2008, 08:58 PM
I am experiencing head separation after 4 reloads. I have re-checked the die and it doesn't look like I am setting back the shoulder. It does feel like the case takes a lot of pressure to size it back down to fit in the die. I might just have an overly tight die. The only other caliber I have had such short case life is a 308 small base die for my BLR.

I am using 8mm winchester cases sized up to 9.3 x 57.

What do you all think?

Jeff

gitano
10-23-2008, 10:28 PM
Measure the head diameter prior to, and after, resizing. If the difference is much greater than 0.010", your chamber is "big" for your die, or conversely, you have a "small-base" die for your 9.3x57.

A 'fix' is to screw the die out at least one full turn. (You only really need to resize about half the neck.) See if that doesn't help. HOWEVER, after reloading a few cartridges with the die modified, be SURE to run them through your action to make sure they chamber.

Paul

Good pics by the way...:biggthumpup:

Nelsdou
10-24-2008, 01:19 AM
Jeff,

When I first got my Hornady dies for the 9.3x57 and started re-sizing 8x57 brass it was taking way too much effort, and that was using Imperial sizing wax to boot. I sent them back to Hornady to investigate and they polished them. Work very slick now.

You probably saw earlier in this thread where my chamber is either is slightly long or my dies are setting the shoulder back too far. After expanding I re-set the shoulder by placing a thin shim between the die and the shell holder, then run them through the action to confirm I get a slight crush fit. I haven't experienced any case separations and I believe some cases have been cycled up to 7 times before I caught on to the need to bump the shoulders forward. So Paul is right on about checking head diameter.

Nice to see that 9.3 making meat. I like the way the Weaver sits on that rifle with the butterknife bolt handle.

Nels

gitano
10-24-2008, 08:51 AM
Nice to see that 9.3 making meat. I like the way the Weaver sits on that rifle with the butterknife bolt handle.

Me too...

Paul

MooseMT
10-24-2008, 09:39 AM
If you like the way it looks you would love the way it balances. It is nice and light, doesn't kick much and it really works well in the field, not really your classic flat shooting open country gun, but it holds it own within its limitations. I have set some limits for myself, allowing for wind or keep the shots a lot closer. I still like the 225 yard limit, it is still within the point blank hold area with a 2.5 high zero at 100. As slow as the bullets are even though heavier, I just was ignorant on the wind effect. Too many bad habits caused by my 338 with it I don't allow for the wind (reasonable wind) on a 200 yard shot. Live and learn and as ugly as the shots sounded the animals didn't suffer much it was over quicker than it took to write it. I will be more responsible in the future. :Banghead:

There are a few guns that just hang well and feel just right. To me this little gun is right there with the M-14, the Winchester 70 and Model 700 bull barrel. These guns I can just throw up to the shoulder and hold my own off hand because of their balances and the way they fit.

I have enough loads for the rest of the season. I will adjust out the die (Hornandy) and try that this winter. Thanks for the suggestions.

Jeff