Anybody else besides me shooting this baby?  I've got lots of data, mods and rounds through mine.  I'm interested in finding if somebody else is shooting double muzzleloaders out there?  

Currently I've been able to keep regulation within 3 inches using from 130 Grn FFg Pyrodex and Triple 7 up to 165 grn max.   Haven't gone over 165 yet, but I'll probably try this weekend.  I'm trying to reach about 1700 fps to achieve Cape Buff killing power of 3500 fpe with a 545 grn round ball.

I've had to make mods to the gun to handle the heavy recoil.  Locks have been modified to keep from doubling, and TC HotShot nipples installed with silicon rubber tubing to keep the #11 CCI Mag caps from falling off the left barrel.  I've replaced the barrel wedge with a solid steel unit, instead of the grooved one.  I might glass bed the stock at the lug for more strength as well.

From 150 grn up recoil is on par with any smokeless big bore round.  It really rattles my brain!  

Thanks,
Colorado

Well I am trying to prove out a CVA SxS 12 into shooting round balls consistently. Not at the pressures and degree you are. My load is 90 grains of 2F under a .690 ball. So far at 50 yards I have been able to hold 4" register between the barrles. Currently I am working up a home made site to correct the problem of repeatable site picture.

Hello, just bought one of these things. Wanted to try black powder hunting for a long time but was a little worried, we have big critters up here that eat meat. The factory tells me 80 grains is a max. load, I guess from what you are doing it isn't. Have you found anything other than round balls to shoot?

Bear Alaska

Hi
There has been quite a bit of talk about these rifles at http://www.whitesmoke.co.za
Check the rifle forum.

Quote from: Bear AlaskaHello, just bought one of these things. Wanted to try black powder hunting for a long time but was a little worried, we have big critters up here that eat meat. The factory tells me 80 grains is a max. load, I guess from what you are doing it isn't. Have you found anything other than round balls to shoot?

Bear Alaska

First, 80 grains is a joke.  These guns are very tough, I've shot double ball loads (two balls on top of each other) with 155 grains Triple7 with no issues.  Not recommended, but I was testing the strength for possible other bullets.

I've been able to push mine over 1900FPS (RB) and achieve 4300FPE.  This I did with 185 grains Triple7.  Mine really likes the Triple7, however, it does cause the gun to shoot apart.  On the other hand Pyrodex causes it to cross, with the same loads. I think I've figured it out, the Triple7 stays in the barrel longer, thus the combined weight of the powder and bullets produce a heavier recoil, causing the bullets to spread.  So, I'm going to try and mix Pyrodex and Triple7 (yes I know my bad) to achieve the exact mixture that makes them come together correctly.  Recoil is heavy with the big loads, but if you can handle a 458Win mag, you can handle this.

I have not tried Black Powder yet, but I just got some last week, so maybe this weekend I'll have time to try it.  

I have about 500 rounds through mine now, and the only problems have been related to the left lock tumbler shearing under heavy recoil.  I was able to modify the tumbler by increasing the depth of the cocking notch, which has stopped the failing.  These would fail (three times) when the hammer was at full cock.  NOTE: You must test your gun with both hammers cocked (without a cap on the left nipple) to be sure it will take the recoil and not double on you.  

Throw away the factory nipples as well, convert to musket caps, or purchase the TC HotShot nipples.  Use only Magnum #11 CCI caps.

Next, trash the lousy rear sights and get some real express sights from //www.jeffsoutfitters.com, the English Triple Leaf's work great.

I put a Bear Slip-on recoil pad on mine, mostly to keep the butt from slipping under recoil.  I think I might add a Silvers 1/2" red rubber recoil pad sometime this summer.  I'm not going for a traditional look, but a truly function hard hitting ML DG gun.  

Powder, wad, patch and lube make a huge difference with these guns. And I have test hundreds of combination to get the one that work well in my gun.  Each gun is different, I've had three, and each shot differently.  Your just going to have to play with PWPL, to get it where you want it.  I will tell you, that the big loads require wads (I use 12ga wad bases, I cut them off), or you will burn through the patch, no matter what lube you use.  I have found in mine, that Virgin Olive Oil and Murphys Oil Soap, at 50/50 whipped worked great at the high velocities.  Also a thick patch worked better than a thin one, but was harder to load.  I had to use a metal long handle ram rod at the range for some of the loads.  The factory ram rod was just to short and hurt my hand when loading the tight fitting patches.  

Its a double, so if your not familiar with them you might try //www.nitroexpress.com and check out the doublegun forum.  They shoot differently than singles, you can follow my saga under the muzzleloading index.  

There is a company that makes conical's for them, 605Grain, but I have not tested them yet.  I have about 20, that I will test this weekend.  NEI makes a mould for a 850 grain monster, but it is very tough to load. You have to hammer it in.  Really, I think RB  are your best bet.  Cast with either lead (soft point equiv) or WW (solid equiv).
The conical's will shoot loose in the left barrel unless you use shot gun wads over top the bullets.  RB do not have that issue.  Never shoot more than three times in the right barrel without shooting the left, as the RB will work loose.  

If you have any more questions just ask...

I love mine, it a blast to shoot, and just MANLY MONSTER gun! :)

Colorado

Thanks for the info. just got back from looking for early black bear. caught a boar wandering around and used  the kodiak. He dropped like he was run over by a truck. Distance was 40 yards and the ball went entirely through the critter. i was impressed and this is the first animal I have ever shot with black powder. I have taken black bear with a 44 mag, I use lyman devastators which are impressive on the little bears 600 lbs. or so but the .72 virtually threw the bear backwards. I used 120 grains BP with a ball cast out of ww. used liquid alox as patch lube and a .10 patch to anchor the rb to the chamber. After seeing the preformance on the black bear I will be using this rifle on brown bear this fall. Can't wait for Moose season. Caribou need alittle more range so I will continue to use my .338. I love showing off my state, any thougts about heading this direction???? the hunting is undescribable the fishing is what you dream about.

Bear, I'm curious about where you're finding "little" black bears of only "600 lbs or so" in AK.
 
Paul

Quote from: Bear AlaskaThanks for the info. just got back from looking for early black bear. caught a boar wandering around and used the kodiak. He dropped like he was run over by a truck. Distance was 40 yards and the ball went entirely through the critter. i was impressed and this is the first animal I have ever shot with black powder. I have taken black bear with a 44 mag, I use lyman devastators which are impressive on the little bears 600 lbs. or so but the .72 virtually threw the bear backwards. I used 120 grains BP with a ball cast out of ww. used liquid alox as patch lube and a .10 patch to anchor the rb to the chamber. After seeing the preformance on the black bear I will be using this rifle on brown bear this fall. Can't wait for Moose season. Caribou need alittle more range so I will continue to use my .338. I love showing off my state, any thougts about heading this direction???? the hunting is undescribable the fishing is what you dream about.

Heck yes I want to head up there. Trying figure out how to finance it.  I'm building and selling double rifles to compete/destroy Jim West's 1895 conversions, and I'm hoping to use the money to finance a Bear hunt.
 
Thanks,
Colorado
 
PS: I'm going in about an hour to shoot the conicals in the Kodiak.
 
+

let me know how they work, just got a message from a guy that apparently thinks 600 lb. black bears are big?? guess different strokes for diffferent folks. Under 600 lbs. is considered small game. In some parts of the state you are allowed to shoot 8 a year. Tasty critters if they are in the hills and not eating fish on the river.

They work wonderfully, the prototype has 500 rounds through it. Look at the 50-90 post to see it.  I'm building two others 1 50-140-525 Sharps and a 45-120-480 Sharps for a couple of your AK neibors.  Cheap and extermely potent double rifles.  Jim West is going to be MAD! :)
 
Colorado

Just for the record, there's never been a 600 lb black bear recorded in Alaska. You want a 600 lb black bear, you're going to have to go to Pennsylvania. In fact, there are precious few 600+ lb grizzlies. There are however, many coastal brown bears substantially in excess of 600 lbs.
 
Paul

I once chased a black bear on my dirt bike; I had to hump that bike pretty hard to keep up;  this was here in Colorado.  I also once had a big blackie in N. GA face me down and all I had were rocks to throw at him.  Last time I went camping without the 44 mag.



Colorado

Range report, I tried the 615 grain conicals and GOEX BP.  The results are as follows.
 
The real BP worked fine, and at the heavy loads shot slightly apart maybe 2 inches; but very accurately and on the same horizontal line and lower than the triple7.  THis was with RB, soft lead.
 
The conicals, using every combo I could think of, shot lousy.  This gun is designed for and shoots RB only.  The conicals were eratic, produced weird recoil, loosened in the barrel severly, producing air graps between the powder and bullet.  This caused sever pressure and recoil...skinned my trigger finger too...ouch!
 
So, I'm sticking with RB.
 
Colorado

I certainly hope to get a Kodiak or similar DR ML some day, and I appreciate this work a great deal.
 
Paul

Paul,
 
You know I'm working on a double 50 cal inline break action ML, designed to shoot the white power punch 600 grain conicals.  Should be awsome, when loaded with 180 grains behind those bullets.
 
Colorado