Went to the National Shooting Show at Newark Showground today and brought some more powder. Now it was cheap as it's old stock and O do mean old. I was not aware that H4381 used to be made by Nobel Glasgow in Scotland. But the  card and tin container has :-

Made in Scotland printed under the H4381 on the side.

The chap got it from a clear out of a shop which closed down why it's been so long before they came up for sale. One of the cartons is of BLC Lot #2  so how long ago did it become BLC-2 and not lot #2?

It seems to be fine condition wise but I have not opened a tub up yet.

I shall try some of the H4381 behind 90 Grn Sierra FMJ BT bullets in the 6mm and .243 and the Sierra 85 Grn HPBT that I also picked up at the show.

BH, I wouldn't worry much about the age of smokeless powder as long as it has been properly cared for. I still have & ocassionally use some old HI-VEL #2 made back in the late 30's-early 40's. I have 30/40 Krag ammo made back in the early1900's. Shoots fine.   ....Paul H

Cheers Paul,

          I was more interested in age out of curiousity. The dealer claims the shop closed in 89 but I was reloading then and I don't recall these card and metal topped cannisters for Hodgdons. Hercules yes used that type but all the Hodgdons I brought came in plastic tubs. The Nobel powders came in tins like IMR same shape too. I used to use Nobel 80 in some pistol loads.

Once I try some and prove it's fine then I'll reserve a few more tubs after it's under 1/2 the price of todays offerings and he has loads of H414 ( about 30 tubs) and I do believe that is suitable for the 270 win and .280 AI as well as 6mm Rem and .243.

BH, these plastic cannisters are fairly new to me. H414 powder is good for about everything from the 17 Rem. to 30/06 & everything in between. It could be used for light magnums too. It's a medium burning ball powder. Every powder maker I know of used metal containers until recent years.  .....Paul H

I would tend to agree with both of you with this qualifier, especially about the BL-C(2).

Once a container has been opened, (and even slightly before it's opened), the chemicals used for 'drying' the powder "off-gas". That doesn't, to my knowledge, change the burn characteristics of the powder, but it does change its "bulk density". You may recall that this came home to me 'in spades' a few years back when I took the .338 MAI to Colorado for the first time. The charges of BL-C(2) were not even 'warm' let alone hot, but I was blowing primers - REALLY blowing primers when I got down there. Turns out, the powder I used for loading THOSE cartridges up was the last of a cannister of BL-C(2) that I had had for almost 30 years, and that I used almost the last of loading those cartridges.

A 50-grain charge of "new" powder will contain less energy than a 50-grain charge of "old" powder because the "old" powder will have a higher bulk density than a "new" cannister of powder does. So...

My suggestion is that you work up on the TRULY 'low' side of "book" charges to start with 'til you get to 'know' that cannister of powder. AND, when you get a new cannister, don't expect it to produce the same MVs or pressures that a really old cannister did.

This isn't an issue once a cartridge is loaded because the chemical energy is fixed forever - the amount of powder doesn't change, only it's weight. That's why milsurp ammo from the late '30s (and especially the nazi 8x56R stuff), is still good to this day.

Personally, I think this is a much greater issue for BL-C(2) than it is for 4831. In my experience, 4831 is the most 'forgiving' gunpowder ever made.

Paul

Cheers guys,

     As I said I will load  few rounds and see how they go and if as we suspect they are fine then I phone up and reserve a few tubs.......................... well quite a few methinks. He has:-
 
H414
H4350
H4831
H335
H4895
 
  I am thinking a few tubs of H414, say another 4 of H4381 and a few H4350 at least. I picked up two tubs of H335 which is what I use in the HV 30-30 loads however they will need to be worked up again with this older powder.

Oh yes I will take a couple of photos of the tubs/tins.

Well this afternoon I opened a tub of the H4831 and despite it not having the solvent smell that I normally associate with powder the colour was good so I decanted it into a plastic tub that had a tiny bit, I mean about two table spoons, of modern H4381. The screw top is much easier than the red plug top of the card carton.

Looking in the manual and then the chart that came with the Lee Dippers 3.4cc looked good as that was a middle charge in the manual at 46.0 Grains so that was chosen for the Sierra 85 Grn HPBT. The bullet was seated to the the base of the neck. This charge of H4381 is at least a 100% load and of fairly low pressure compared to other loads so should be kind to the rifle.

The intial test firing of the five test rounds show much promise so I am going to load 20 in 4 sets with the bullet seated out a bit further each time and see if it improves or not.

Well I have nearly used the first tub of H4831 and started on the H335 which I am using in the .308 to try out with Hornady 150 Grn SP #3031 it's showing promise .

I had better contact Frank who I got the powder off and get some more put aside for me. Hmmmm methinks I'll need several more lbs of the H4831 and get some of the H414.. Just need to find the funds to pay for it :o.

Quote from: gitano;111517Personally, I think this is a much greater issue for BL-C(2) than it is for 4831. In my experience, 4831 is the most 'forgiving' gunpowder ever made.

Paul

And, I couldn't agree more. Been using it since 1962. Now they have the SSC and I'm not convinced it's any better.  4831 is a winner in my book. Regards, Rick.

Yeah the funny thin is that this H3831 was made by Nobel at Glasgow Scotland.

Of course the government at the time some years back closed it down for safety reasons.................. :huh: more like a nice big fat back hander :lipsrsealed:.