So, all you experts please chime in.
 
What does it take to build a custom rifle?
Here is my idea. Lets say I want a nice wooden stock on the rifle that I can finish myself but is already fited to the barrel and action. I can glass bed it myself, and am confident I can make the stock as nice or better than someone else.
 
Is it cheaper to just buy a rifle I like off hte shelf or would it be better to have one custom made?
 
Another option: What about buying a rifle and then taking it to a gunsmith to have it accurized? What things would the smith want to do? What makes one rifle more accurate than another given that they are the same caliber?
 
I'm just curious as to why some rifles shoot better than others and can any rifle be customized into a tack driver?
 
What are your thoughts on the matter. I would really like to have a new rifle someday, but the british .303 I have modified seems more mine than a new rifle off the shelf. Is it better to spend my time working for the money to buy a rifle and then modify it, or would it be more accurate a rifle to build it from the ground up? And what is the cost difference in ballpark numbers?
 
I know this is kind of a dumb post but I'm curious as to what you fellows think,
Chris

You'll need a donor action, a barrel, stock of choice, some cash and a smith you trust.  Depending on if you have the action on hand and the qualiyt of other stuff you choose to buy, the cost can vary dramatically.
 
I just had a .358 STA built.  I used an M77 Mark II action.  A $140 Douglas barrel.  Got a VIP laminated stock from Boyds and finished it myself.  All in all, I got a VERY good deal, price wise, getting everything put together     ...     BUT     ...     final cost of the project was 2 times what it would have cost if I'd have just gone in and boughten a brand new M77 Mark II in say, .338 WinMag or right on par with a $1400 Weatherby .340 WbyMag.  If I'd have had the donor action, the cost would have been considerably less.  For my .280 Ack. Imp. project, I had the Springfield action already in the safe.  My cost with this one to get it completely done will be kist a shade over $500, not counting the scope and rings cost.  Not bad at all.  My next project is going to be a .300 KAHN built on a Remington 700 action for an extreme range rig.  You can really go crazy with these     ...     complete blueprinting, bedding blocks, heavy benchrest stocks, Lilja or other match grade barrel, muzzle brakes, custom reamers     ...     it all can add up to 3 - 4 thousand $$$ real quick-like.
 
Custom is always gonna cost more.  And it should.  You're getting fits and tuning that simply does not come on a factory rifle.  At least you should be getting that stuff, if the smith is worth his salt.  There are things you can do to watch cost.  I've used $70 Adams and Bennett barrels on some of the less intensity cartridges with very good success and wouldn't hesitate to do so again.  As mentioned, already having your action to work with will cut overall cost instantly.  Other benefit of custom rigs is simply this, there is no way I could have walked into a store, for any price, and gotten a .358 STA off the shelf.  So in that respect, buying custom is a very good value and it ensures that you get exactly what you want.  Later.  >>  klallen

Hi cgphunter,

 
        Now it depends on what you are wanting to finish up with, the ways you mention can do it but you seem a trifle confused:confused:  Custom is a wide field my friend, very wide. A true custom built rifle may or may not be a tack driver, it depends on the :-
 
Barrel, poor barrels don't often shoot well
 
Action type and just how true it is........Some actions seem to be more accurate than others, a stiff action is easier to get to shoot well.
 
Sights.....type and how true to the rifle thay are fitted, be it Iron or Glass, they must be fitted true to the bore.
 
Stock...... it matters not what material the stock is. However it must be bedded to the action properly. This does not alway mean glass bedding, a properly fitted and bedded wod stock is very accurate.
 
      You could buy the best compenents money can buy, but if they are put toghter poorly then it's unlikely to be very accurate.
 
  For example........... my hunting buddy is into bench rst and 600yd High Power competition. He brought him self a Savage Synthetic stocked targetrifle 22-250, 26 inch heavy stainless fluted barrel, recessed target crown, Sharp Shooter (tm) adjustable target trigger. Choate synthetic stock with alluminum bedding block and pillar bedded, bipod, Burris Signature 4x16 scope. Everything but the scope comes as part of the package. The devil weighs in at 11.25 pounds without the scope.
 
     He shot it in this configuration for a little while then had it trued up, Barrel re-crowned and if I remeber right trued up the lugs and re-headspaced it. After getting it to shoot very well at 600 yards, like hitting the Orange spotting disc often" he found that the groups were stringing sideways due to wind quite badly, even using 70 rn bullets, it he brought a new Lija 3 groove barrel chambered in .243 Ackley Improved, then replaced the stock with a kevlar special one and it shoots under MOA at 40 yards.
 
     This is a custom rifle starting with a commercial one for a specialised purpose. The other way is to go fro the full custom route. This can even mean custon actions! I have a rifle I brought S/H like this, even the action is a one off, I do not know who made the barrel but it's a good one as I quite regularly get 3 shot groups with them all touching at 100 yards. Oh and this is a 30-30 bolf action. You don't want to know the price of having it built to the same specs today, finely figured walnut, Kepplinger single set trigger perfect rust bluing. I know I cannot afford to have one built like it at todays prices, even s/h is was expensive.
 
     Jay will tell you about custom work, he made some beauties when he was running his one man shop:D  Good quality work takes a little time ans does not come cheap. I hope I ahve given you some food for thought.

My grand father had a saying......"How long's a piece of string?"
 
Everything is relative. What is your aim? What are you going to hunt/shoot with this rifle? Targets? Deer? Bears? Coyotes? Groundhogs? Boars?
 
Once you've decided that you can start to narrow down your options. Which cal/cartridge?
 
This in turn affects which action you should or need to choose. Big magnums need long strong actions. Short rounds work best in a short action. Your action, if you've already decided what you want will also affect the type of cartridge you can use. Martinis in reality work best with rimmed cartridges. So do '94 style levers. Rolling blocks won't take a great deal of pressure. Falling blocks and front locking bolt guns on the other hand are almost limitless.
 
What sort territory or position are you shooting from? Long hikes necessitate light, preferably shorter barrelled rifles. Varmint work is best with a solid heavy barrel. Big magnums need a long barrel to burn all of that powder.
 
And then there's the stock. Again dictated by your own aesthetic preferences and the demands of weight and comfort.
 
Finally there's other aesthetic features like engraving, barrel shapes and the like or replicating a type of firearm, either in it's original construction or your own style.
 
And you haven't even chosen the optics yet.......which again will affect some of the aspects of you design.
 
Brithunter is right. If you aleady own an action your plans are based around you've taken the first step. But don't rush. Go to gun shows. See if you can get what you want, particularly if it entails unusual older parts, for good prices and slowly assemble the parts you need to complete the project. You may even gain the skills along the way to do most of the task yourself if you're good with your hands. But there is no substitute for quality workmanship so, as Klallen said, find someone trustworthy early on and start sounding them out. They'll be able to tell you what's sensible, what they can do(and more importantly what they are willing to do, either safety wise or for other reasons) and what to look for.
 
Go for it and enjoy the process, but ultimately it'll cost......it always does.

Thnaks for the advice guys.
That is interesting kombi, so your saying I could buy the parts along? Like geta an action say first then take my time looking for a good barrel and then a stock ect.?
 
OK - This is my ultimate dream rifle:
.308 true short action
target style straight taper barel
really nice wood stock that fits well and is bedded and floated
 
I don't want a wildcat cartridge but I want a rifle that makes a statement when I'm shooting and in the gun safe. I know that there are lots of things that can increase the cost of building a rifle, lots of detail work, but what are the necessity items for making it as accurate as possible?
 
I have no clue of a gunsmith in my area who is good. To be honest I am sure that the last guy I used to drill and tap the scope mount for the British .303 was terrible, I had to go back and redo his work. How do I find a really good gunsmith? Is there a directory or something? Are there questions I should ask in order to find out how good he is? I am an engineer, and I know that the more precise you are in building the rifle the more accurat it can be, I just don't know how to find someone that will do the job well and at a reasonable price.
 
Any suggestions?
Chris

IF I were to have a rifle built to the specifics that you describe, this is what I'd do.
 
For extreme accuracy work, I'd search out a Remington 700 short action.  From what I have seen and heard, these (in used condition) are often hard to come by and have seen fellas go as far as buying NIB Remington rifles just to get to their actions for projects.  I'm sure with some searching, you'd be able to find one used.  A competent smith can and will blueprint ANY action that you provide him, but all will tell you that the design of the 700 lends itself best to the accurizing processes.  So that's what I'd start with.  I'd go with a competition recoil lug from Holland to replace the factory one.  And replace the factory trigger with one of match quality performance, being able to have the trigger pull lowered tomere ounces.
 
Barrel search would start and stop with Lilja.  Straight taper, as you wish.  I'd go with an 1 1/4" diameter, 26" stainless steel barrel.  Twist would totally depend on the weight of bullet that you are planning to use.  That's a decision you need to address.  For my .300 KAHN, I'm using a 36" 1:10 twist, 6 groove barrel, so that heavy 240 - 250 gr. bullets can be used for my extreme range purposes (1500 - 2000 yd.).  With the small case you'd be using, I don't know if 250's would necessarily be to your benefit but again, this is an area you need to address.  You can flute it if you choose.  Personally, I would, and go with the deeper flutes Lilja uses on his .50 BMG barrels, but in the end it would have more to do with the cosmetics of the barrel then any real benefit that it would provide in cool down.  I do believe in the principle that the added barrel surface aids in this area, but in reality would never drive my rifle hard enough where hazzardous barrel heating would become an issue.
 
The reamer used for the project would be from JGS.  A live pilot reamer, with all specs centered around match quality tolerances.  I'm sure they've already got a reamer of this kind in their system so it would just be a matter of ordering and getting it sent to your smith.
 
Stock would be of benchrest style.  Check out the Elk Ridge product.  It would be of wood.  Laminated.  You can choose the basic nutmeg or natural look, or go crazy with color.  Patriot (red/silver/bright blue) is my personal preference for the KAHN project.  They'll tailor the stock to your needs     ...     95% inletted, give the barrel channel desired, leave the butt long so your exact LOP can be used for your personal fit.  Then you finish it to your liking.  I would personally pay the extra $15 to have the stock made into a thumbhole grip.  I just love the feel and comfort of this grip.  I'm looking at the 3 1/2" forearm simply for added steadiness.  You can order to liking here, too.
 
Give it all to the smith.  I've a wonderful smith up here that I'd be more then happy to forward info to you for.  He's very much into building extreme accurate rifles for himself and puts that kind of effort into everything that leaves his shop.  You are more then welcome to his phone # if you so desire.
 
Anyhooo, that's how I'd put a rifle together as you described.  I'm sure others will have different ideas for ya to consider.  Good luck to ya.  >>  klallen

There ya go, a straight answer. Question is, do you intend to shoot targets with it or critters?
 
As to good gunsmiths, contact the local branch of the NRA and talk to the bench rest and competition shooters there. Ask them who they use and if possible see some of the work that smith has done.

Thanks for the advice. I intend to shoot deer, but would like to be able to target shoot as well. I 'm not talking about 1000yrd. competition, just at the range and with friends. I would like a rifle that I can hunt with and target shoot with. Maybe I am asking for too much out of one rifle?
 
Thanks again,
Chris

Check out a Savage with laminated stock, at least 90% of what you want and about $400 NIB
Don

DRINKSGIN makes a good point simply buying factory, for bunches less, and shooting it at the range to see what you have.  If things aren't to your liking, you can always have the action blueprinted and all the little tweeking that can be done to semi-customize a factory offering.  
 
#1 decision you need to make is do you want invest in full custom, or just tweek something you can buy off the shelf (and save $$$).  For deer hunting, I personally would side with DRINKSGIN and choose the latter route.  I like rifles from many manufacturers, but Savage does make a wonderful rifle.  Rarely requiring any of the typical blueprinting that other actions do for accuracy as they've got a floating bolt face that seems to be aweful forgiving.  I have a Savage 12FV .223, 116BVSS in .25-06 and 111GT in .270 and completely support the above endorsement for their performance.  >>  klallen

Quote from: cgphunterThnaks for the advice guys.
That is interesting kombi, so your saying I could buy the parts along? Like geta an action say first then take my time looking for a good barrel and then a stock ect.?
 
OK - This is my ultimate dream rifle:
.308 true short action
target style straight taper barel
really nice wood stock that fits well and is bedded and floated
 
I don't want a wildcat cartridge but I want a rifle that makes a statement when I'm shooting and in the gun safe. I know that there are lots of things that can increase the cost of building a rifle, lots of detail work, but what are the necessity items for making it as accurate as possible?
 
 
 
Any suggestions?
Chris

Chris,
 
OK neighbor, I just had to put my .02 cents worth in since this is supposedly what I do!
Now FIRST----I am going to take you at your word that the ".308 true short action, target style straight taper barrel, really nice wood stock that fits well and is bedded and floated."
IF SO, let us proceed!
 
klallen has suggested the Rem-700 SA........me too! Look for a 700 ADL SA in any caliber that was factory--ie 243,7-08.308, etc. Your going to shuck the barrel anyway. Next decide on a barrel maker....Lilja as suggested by klallen is a good choice but it is a high dollar barrel and a higher quality barrel than you really need. Lilja, Krieger, Obermeyer are the best of the best. Other good barrel makers are Pac-Nor, Lothar Walther, Douglas to name a few. I have had good success with these barrel makers. Lilja, Krieger & Obermeyer are priced out of my reach as benchrest quality is not a necessity for my purposes. Decide if you want stainless steel or chrome moly. Then decide on the twist you want...for your STATED purposed, I suggest a 1 in 12" twist. Now for a aftermarket trigger...........Canjar Single Set well do the job you want...regular trigger 3# or so for hunting and the set portion of the trigger that breaks at about 4 OUNCES will do will for the target shooting part. For Mississippi, (I have spent some time there) you have woods and open fields, most shots would be from 25yds to maybe 300. You do not require a 26" barrel or a 24".....based on the results from "The Houston Warehouse" article and the distances you will be shooting.......I suggest a 21.75" barrel, straight taper if you so desire. This length barrel will give you all the velocity for your STATED requirements.
 
You stated you wanted a wood stock. To my way of thinking this also elimanates Laminated stocks. At the low end of stocks in wood you have Boyds..I have no knowledge of their quality so can't say good or bad. Great American Gunstocks and Richards Microfit Stocks. I have used both and am pleased with the quality of wood. Buy the highest grade before you get to the Grade 'A' Fancy. The stock should be pillar and glass bedded and the barrel free-floated.
 
Thats a general overall view of the way I would build the custom rifle for myself. Gives you a starting point to consider for the custom rifle for your personal taste/use.
 
Good on ya for desiring something out of the ordinary.....No offence intended for those that don't want/desire a custom rifle.
 
Ol' John.....

I'll back that up too. Remember that you can always buy things like off the shelf custom stocks or safeties for most popular factory rifles as well as other little parts. Plus Savage has the AccuTrigger which has to be up there as one of the best factory triggers on the market. The market size is on your side in the US because chances are somebody else has similar tastes, even if they aren't all on the same rifle. Things I'd have to have custom made here in Australia, like a Mannlicher-style stock say or custom barrels, can be bought off the shelf for popular actions/rifles.

Boy, you guys have really come through with lots to consider. I guess the only thing left to do is find the true variable in this equation, a good gunsmith. I will heed the advice allready offored and search one out. Maybe I can run some ideas by him and see what he can actually do. Well, thanks again for the info, and if you guys think of anything else please feel free and let me know.
 
Thanks,
Chris

Hi cgphunter,

       How far is St Louis MO from you? there is a good Gunsmith in that area wo specialises in Accuracy and is keen on benchrest stuff, but he des toher lighter type rifles as well. He is the one who did my buddies rifle which started out as the Savage. If you would like I will ask Steven for his contact details;)

I would appreciate it Brithunter. I will be honest, I don't have the funds for it now, but maybe in the not to distant future I will, and If I have is info that is who I would contact. I would rather go out of my way to find someone who is reputable, than to settle for what is convenient.
 
Thanks,
Chris